Excavations in Pella 650-279 B.C

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Giannis wrote:
Quote:
What i said and i'm assuring you is that in Philip's tomb,except for the linothorax
......except for the "linothorax"? Presumably here you are referring to the intact iron Tube-and-Yoke corselet, in which case haven't you just proved the point?

Ah,sorry for the confusion,yes,I had the iron cuirass in mind,which incidentally,I would never call a linothorax, just because it has similar shape(it was a shamful mistake of mine that i did it now)

Quote:
People have reported that in other cases similar fittings have been describes to belong in leather thorakes.

Can you give specifics, please...are you saying you have seen reports that refer to 'leather thorakes' in a Greek context ? (As opposed,say, to Scythian or Thracian tombs where leather-based Tube-and-Yoke corselets are common, and occasionally survive more or less intact.)

Truth is I can't. I was quoting Matthew Amt and something I had long ago read in his site. I can't find it now,but he was speaking generally about armor fittings reported to have belonged to leather cuirasses, while this was purely archaologists' speculation. Perhaps Matt can add a bit more.

However,saying that Skythian leather armor proves that the Greek ones were the same,is the same and worse than us linophiles quoting ancient sources who MAY have been talking about foreign linen armor and not Greek.
By the way,leather armor has indeed been found in Macedonia,some of them almost intact,like the scaled neck guard from Derveni. Yes,this is an exception,but someone would expect something bigger and thicker like a linothorax should have survived at least partially. But the leather fragments found are so small that one couldn't identify the object they belonged to.

Theo,thanks for the photos. That Illyrian to the right is very beautiful.
You know,some of those great finds come from Sindos,a village outside of Thessaloniki,where my school is based. We have a 20 hectar farm which is basically cultivated by us agriculture students. I get crazy when i think of what I may stuck to some day hock:
Khaire
Giannis

[Paullus Scipio]

Giannis wrote:

However,saying that Skythian leather armor proves that the Greek ones were the same,is the same and worse than us linophiles quoting ancient sources who MAY have been talking about foreign linen armor and not Greek.

....whoah ! .....some misunderstanding here, I think! I never said that Scythian leather Tube-and-Yoke corselets proved Greek ones were too ! In fact I was being very careful to distinguish the Scythian and Thracian examples from greek ones, and that is why I specifically asked you about the leather you referred to being "in a Greek Context".

But still, all the evidence we have so far ( and can someone PLEASE try to get the reports in Greece, as Ioannis was going to), tantalising though it is, points to Makedonian 'thorakes'/body armour ( and gorgets, as you have reminded us) being leather/leather based, and that is probably as close as we are ever going to get, given the burial customs and archaeology conditions further south......unless an intact one turns up in a Thracian/Scythian tomb, of undoubted Greek manufacture......pretty unlikely! ( especially as the steppe-dwellers were Master Leather Craftsmen in their own right.....a battle trophy perhaps ???????
One can but dream !! D lol:

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

OK,no misunderstanding,and yet,none of those cuirasses is identical in shape to greek ones. As has been discussed before,the tube-and-yoke general shape is pretty much a generic one for armor. Given that the Persian quilted ones are undoubtedly linen(and agreed,no actual finds but i think enough pectoral evidence),no "final conclusion" can be made by any of the two. I believe no disagrement in that one either.
I have no connection to archaeologists,unfortunately,although i live relatively near the excavation sites.
Two years ago i visited Amphipolis with school. In the museum the curator caught my excitement and lead some of us under the museum where it is believed the grave of Brasidas was found.In a marble square grave where a silver larnax was,and with a gold wreath. This is completely irrelevant,but he informed me about some recent finds,some great tombs that they believed belonged to Roxana and other family members. I asked if one could go work there and he said in summer the archaeologist that was in charge may need unspecialized workers. I'm very dissapointed that i couldn't go due to work in my own farm I would have been a wealth of (illegal???) info for you :roll:
Khairete
Giannis

[Arthes]

I also found this from August...the names are not coming up in the Search.

Golden items dating from the 4th century B.C. were accidentally found several days ago by farmers while working on their land in village Tremnik near Negotino.
This is a significant finding, including two golden coins from the time of Philip II and Alexander III, which points that these items are scattered all over the Mediterranean, but also in this region, said Wednesday Cultural Heritage Protection Bureau director Pasko Kuzman.
The excavated items, together with the other archaeological findings from this region, will be set at the Negotino Museum.
Macedonian finds