Login

09-27-2004, 10:54 PM

I am interested in learning more about the organisation and composition of the 4th Century AD navy. Can anyone help? 
 
Perry

***Praefectusclassis*** · 09-28-2004, 06:38 AM

Hi Perry, 
I'd like to help you, but I'm afraid my ready knowledge is somewhat limited. If you read French, you'll find a lot of info in M.ReddÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â©, Mare Nostrum (Rome 1986). Greets 
 
Jasper

09-29-2004, 10:10 AM

Hi Perry, 
an interesting topic! I've done a list about 4th and 5th century roman navy expeditions - and tata what wonder - it shows that the navy played quite a big role in late antiquity providing a lot of transport capacity and crucial missions - mainly for civil conflicts.

09-30-2004, 09:19 PM

Natuspardo, 
 
Can you provide me with some of your information? 
 
I am interested in the naval operations including the 468 CE offensive againgst the Vandals and (of course), Belisarios's conquest of North Africa. Smaller operations are of interest too. 
 
Perry

10-03-2004, 06:52 PM

you should visit this site, if you haven't already: 
www.uni-regensburg.de/Fak...elles.html

10-07-2004, 04:05 PM

Hi Perry, 
I was busy in Strasbourg locating the battlefield. Guess what the French built on it! A refuse pit! 
Heres raw material, not complete - and sometimes in German. Dont have the time to translate. Hope it helps... 
 
 
 
Flottenexpeditionen 
 
309 Maxentius erobert Africa 
 
323 Constantin besiegt Licinius 
Constantin: 200 DreiÃƒÆ’Ã…Â¸igruderer 
Licinius: Verlust: 130 Schiffe mit 15000 Mann 
 
343 Constans segelt mit 100 Mann nach Britannien 
 
"Constans did not wait around sitting on the coast until the spring arrived and the Ocean storms abated, but straight away in mid-winter with everything, clouds, cold and swell, roused to total fury by the weather, he embarked a hundred men, so it is said, and casting off he clove the Ocean, and straight away everything became calm. He sent no advance warning to the cities there, nor did he make any prior announcement of his sailing, or wish to create a stir with his plans before he had completed the venture . . . As it was, affairs in Britain were stable . . ." 
Libanius (d.393) 'Oration LIX' 
 
 
The writer Julius Firmicus Maternus mentioned that Constans visited Britain in the early months of 343, but did not explain why. The speed of his trip, paired with the fact he crossed the English Channel during the dangerous winter months, suggests it was in response to a military emergency of some kind. 
In the winter of 342-3 Constans sailed to Britain. The plan, a risky one, seems to have been to establish his power before a revolt broke out. He was apparently successful, despite reputedly only bringing a hundred men with him. A lead seal from London, bearing Constans' head, is the only rather tenuous archaeological evidence for the occasion. 
Sources: Julius Firmicus Maternus (De Errore Profanum Religionum) xxviii.6; Libanius (Oration) lix.139, 141; RIB 2411.23 (London lead seal) 
358 Julian vergrÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶ÃƒÆ’Ã…Â¸ert die Kanalflotte von 200 auf 600 Schiffe fÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼r den Getreidetransport 
358-60 Julian uses several times rhine boats to outflank alaman forces who try to oppose his river crossing 
359/60 mag. Equitum per Gallias Lupicinus segelt mit Eruli-Batavi und zwei mÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶sischen Legionen (vielleicht Primani-Undecimani) nach Britannien 
361 Truppen Julians liegen in Sizilien bereit, um bei gÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼nstiger Gelegenheit Africa zu besetzen 
361 Julian on his way east captures the donau-flotilla in raetia and sails some 3000 men in a lightning strike to sirmium 
367 Theodosius d. ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¾. segelt mit Eruli-Batavi und Victores-Iovii nach Britannien 
 
373 mag. Theodosius d.ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¾. segelt von Arles aus nach Africa 
gallische, pannonische und illyrische Truppen 
belegt: I Flavia Pacis, II Flavia Virtutis, III Flavia Salutis 
zu einem fortgeschrittenen Stadium des Feldzugs verfÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼gt Theodosius ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ber 3500 M. 
 
378 Gratian sails with troops down the danube to aid in the adrianople campaign 
 
388 Valentinian II. segelt mit Flotte von Thessaloniki nach Rom 
mag. Mil. Andragathius versucht ihn abzufangen, wohl von Ravenna aus 
 
397 mag. Mil. Stilicho segelt von Italien nach Korinth, schlieÃƒÆ’Ã…Â¸t dort Alarich ein 
A numerous fleet was equipped in the ports of Italy; and the troops, after a short and prosperous navigation over the Ionian Sea, were safely disembarked on the isthmus, near the ruins of Corinth. The woody and mountainous country of Arcadia, the fabulous residence of Pan and the Dryads, became the scene of a long and doubtful conflict between two generals not unworthy of each other. The skill and perseverance of the Roman at length prevailed; and the Goths, after sustaining a considerable loss from disease and desertion, gradually retreated to the lofty mountain of Pholoe, near the sources of the Peneus, and on the frontiers of Elis - a sacred country, which had formerly been exempted from the calamities of war. (17) The camp of the barbarians was immediately besieged; the waters of the river (1 were diverted into another channel; and while they laboured under the intolerable pressure of thirst and hunger, a strong line of circumvallation was formed to prevent their escape. After these precautions Stilicho, too confident of victory, retired to enjoy his triumph in the theatrical games and lascivious dances of the Greeks; his soldiers, deserting their standards, spread themselves over the country of their allies, which they stripped of all that had been saved from the rapacious hands of the enemy. Alaric appears to have seized the favourable moment to execute one of those hardy enterprises in which the abilities of a general are displayed with more genuine lustre than in the tumult of a day of battle. To extricate himself from the prison of Peloponnesus it was necessary that he should pierce the entrenchments which surrounded his camp; that he should perform a difficult and dangerous march of thirty miles, as far as the Gulf of Corinth; and that he should escapes to Epirustransport his troops, his captives, and his spoil, over an arm of the sea, which, in the narrow interval between Rhium and the opposite shore, is at least half a mile in breadth.(19) The operations of Alaric must have been secret, prudent, and rapid, since the Roman general was confounded by the intelligence that the Goths, who had eluded his efforts, were in full possession of the important province of Epirus. This unfortunate delay allowed Alaric sufficient time to conclude the treaty which he secretly negotiated with the ministers of Constantinople. The apprehension of a civil war compelled Stilicho to retire, at the haughty mandate of his rivals; from the dominions of Arcadius; and he respected, in the enemy of Rome, the honourable character of the ally and servant of the emperor of the East. 
Note 016 
For Stilicho's Greek war compare the honest narrative of Zosimus (l. v. [c. 7] p. 295, 296) with the curious circumstantial flattery of Claudian (i. Cons. Stilich. 1. i. 172-186; iv. Cons. Hon. 459-487). As the event was not glorious, it is artfully thrown into the shade. 
Note 018 
Claudian (in iv. Cons. Hon. 480) alludes to the fact without naming the river; perhaps the Alpheus (i. Cons. Stil. 1. i. 185). 
Et Alpheus Geticis angustus acervis 
Tardior ad Siculos etiamnum pergit amores. 
Yet I should prefer the Peneus, a shallow stream in a wide and deep bed which runs through Elis and falls into the sea below Cyllene. It had been joined with the Alpheus to cleanse the Augean stable. (Cellarius, tom. i. p. 760. Chandler's Travels, p. 286.) 
 
398 5000 M. segeln von Pisa nach Africa: leg. pal. Ioviani-Herculiani, Augustei/-enses, aux.? Nervii, aux. pal. Leones, Felices, aux. pal. Invicti 
1.Ioviani: seniores, legiones palatinae; die ranghÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶chsten Infanterie-Einheiten des gesamten Heeres, in Notitia in Italien stationiert 
2.Herculiani: seniores, legiones palatinae; die ranghÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶chsten Infanterie-Einheiten des gesamten Heeres, in Notitia in Italien stationiert 
3.Leones: auxilia palatina, in Notitia seniores und iuniores im Westreich, seniores in Gallia, iuniores in Italia 
4.Augustei: auxilia palatina, in Notitia im Westreich; Schwestereinheit der Grati, die in Italia stationiert waren 
5.Nervii: Sagittarii Nervii, auxilia palatina; z. Zt. der Notitia in Hispania 
6.Invicti: auxilia palatina, Schwestereinheit der Felices; seniores-Einheit z. Zt. der Notitia in Hispania. 
7.Felices: auxilia palatina, Schwestereinheit der Invicti; seniores-Einheit z. Zt. der Notitia in Hispania, iuniores in Italia 
The vigilant Stilicho already prepared to collect the naval and military forces of the Western empire; and he had resolved, if the tyrant should be able to wage an equal and doubtful war, to march against him in person. But as Italy required his presence, and as it might be dangerous to weaken the defence of the frontier, he judged it more advisable that Mascezel should attempt this arduous adventure at the head of a chosen body of Gallic veterans, who had lately served under the standard of Eugenius. These troops, who were exhorted to convince the world that they could subvert, as well as defend, the throne of an usurper, consisted of the Jovian, the Herculian, and the Augustan legions; of the Nervian auxiliaries; of the soldiers who displayed in their banners the symbol of a lion; and of the troops which were distinguished by the auspicious names of Fortunate and Invincible. Yet such was the smallness of their establishments, or the difficulty of recruiting, that these seven bands, (44) of high dignity and reputation in the service of Rome, amounted to no more than five thousand effective men.(45) The fleet of galleys and transports sailed in tempestuous weather from the port of Pisa, in Tuscany, and steered their course to the little island of Capraria, 
avoided the dangerous rocks of Corsica, coasted along the eastern side of Sardinia, and secured his ships against the violence of the south wind, by casting anchor in the safe and capacious harbour of Cagliari, at the distance of one hundred and forty miles from the African shores.(4 
Defeat and death of Gildo. A.D. 398 
Gildo was prepared to resist the invasion with all the forces of Africa. By the liberality of his gifts and promises, he endeavoured to secure the doubtful allegiance of the Roman soldiers, whilst he attracted to his standard the distant tribes of Gaetulia and Ethiopia. He proudly reviewed an army of seventy thousand men, and boasted, with the rash presumption which is the forerunner of disgrace, that his numerous cavalry would trample under their horses' feet the troops of Mascezel, and involve, in a cloud of burning sand, the natives of the cold regions of Gaul and Germany.(49) But the Moor who commanded the legions of Honorius was too well acquainted with the manners of the countrymen to entertain any serious apprehension of a naked and disorderly host of barbarians, whose left arm, instead of a shield, was protected only by a mantle; who were totally disarmed as soon as they had darted the javelin from their right hand; and whose horses had never been taught to bear the control, or to obey the guidance, of the bridle. He fixed his camp of five thousand veterans in the face of a superior enemy, and, after the delay of three days, gave the signal of a general engagement. (50) As Mascezel advanced before the front with fair offers of peace and pardon, he encountered one of the foremost standard-bearers of the Africans, and, on his refusal to yield, struck him on the arm with his sword. The arm and the standard sunk under the weight of the blow, and the imaginary act of submission was hastily repeated by all the standards of the line. At this signal the disaffected cohorts proclaimed the name of their lawful sovereign; the barbarians, astonished by the defection of their Roman allies, dispersed, according to their custom, in tumultuary flight; and Mascezel obtained the honours of an easy and almost bloodless victory.(51) The tyrant escaped from the field of battle to the sea-shore, and threw himself into a small vessel, with the hope of reaching in safety some friendly port of the empire of the East; but the obstinacy of the wind drove him back into the harbour of Tabraca,(52) which had acknowledged, with the rest of the province, the dominion of Honorius, and the authority of his lieutenant. The inhabitants, as a proof of their repentance and loyalty, seized and confined the person of Gildo in a dungeon; and his own despair saved him from the intolerable torture of supporting the presence of an injured and victorious brother. (53) The captives and the spoils of Africa were laid at the feet of the emperor; but Stilicho, whose moderation appeared more conspicuous and more sincere in the midst of prosperity, still affected to consult the laws of the republic, and referred to the senate and people of Rome the judgment of the most illustrious criminals.(54) Their trial was public and solemn; but the judges, in the exercise of this obsolete and precarious jurisdiction, were impatient to punish the African magistrates who had intercepted the subsistence of the Roman people. The rich and guilty province was oppressed by the Imperial ministers, who had a visible interest to multiply the number of the accomplices of Gildo; and if an edict of Honorius seems to check the malicious industry of informers, a subsequent edict, at the distance of ten years, continues and renews the prosecution of the offences which had been committed in the time of the general rebellion.(55) The adherents of the tyrant who escaped the first fury of the soldiers and the judges might derive some consolation from the tragic fate of his brother, who could never obtain his pardon for the extraordinary services which he had performed. After he had finished an important war in the space of a single winter, Mascezel was received at the court of Milan with loud applause, affected gratitude, and secret jealousy;(56) and his death, which perhaps was the effect of accident, has been considered as the crime of Stilicho. In the passage of a bridge, the Moorish prince, who accompanied the master-general of the West, was suddenly thrown from his horse into the river; the officious haste of the attendants was restrained by a cruel and perfidious smile which they observed on the countenance of Stilicho; and while they delayed the necessary assistance, the unfortunate Mascezel was irrecoverably drowned.(57) 
Note 044 
Claudian, Bell. Gild. 415-423. The change of discipline allowed him to use indifferently the names of Legio, Cohors, Manipulus. See the Notitia Imperii, S. 38, 40. 
Note 045 
Orosius (l. vii. c. 36, p. 565) qualifies this account with an expression of doubt (ut aiunt); and it scarcely coincides with the ... of Zosimus (l. v. [c. 1 l] p. 303). Yet Claudian, after some declamation about Cadmus's soldiers, frankly owns that Stilicho sent a small army, lest the rebel should fly, ne timeare times (i. Cons. Stilich. l. i. 314, etc.). 
Note 051 
Zosimus (l. v. [c. 1 l ] p. 303) supposes an obstinate combat; but the narrative of Orosius appears to conceal a real fact under the disguise of a miracle. 
 
400 mit einer Flotte verhindert Fravitta den Versuch des Gainas, mit FlÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶ÃƒÆ’Ã…Â¸en von Europa nach Kleinasien ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼berzusetzen. 
407 bei der geplanten Eroberung Illyriens rÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ckte Alarich als vom Westen ernannter Heermeister in die Epirus ein. Eine Flotte sollte ihn unterstÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼tzen. Der Zusammenbruch der Rheingrenze verhinderte das Unternehmen. 
409/10? Druma soll im Auftrag von Attalus mit barbarischen (gotischen) Truppen Africa erobern 
Ende 409/Anfang 410 stattdessen wird Constans zum comes Africae ernannt und mit zu geringen Truppen geschickt. Bei der Ankunft wird er getÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶tet. 
410 4000 M. segeln aus dem Ostreich nach Ravenna 
 
413 comes Africae Heraclianus setzt mit 700 Schiffen (3700 laut Oros. 7.42.13) nach Italien ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ber 
Edward Gibbon: 
Heraclian, count of 
Africa, who, under the most difficult and distressful 
circumstances, had supported, with active loyalty, the cause of 
Honorius, was tempted, in the year of his consulship, to assume 
the character of a rebel, and the title of emperor. The ports of 
Africa were immediately filled with the naval forces, at the head 
of which he prepared to invade Italy: and his fleet, when it cast 
anchor at the mouth of the Tyber, indeed surpassed the fleets of 
Xerxes and Alexander, if all the vessels, including the royal 
galley, and the smallest boat, did actually amount to the 
incredible number of three thousand two hundred. ^146 Yet with 
such an armament, which might have subverted, or restored, the 
greatest empires of the earth, the African usurper made a very 
faint and feeble impression on the provinces of his rival. As he 
marched from the port, along the road which leads to the gates of 
Rome, he was encountered, terrified, and routed, by one of the 
Imperial captains; and the lord of this mighty host, deserting 
his fortune and his friends, ignominiously fled with a single 
ship. ^147 When Heraclian landed in the harbor of Carthage, he 
found that the whole province, disdaining such an unworthy ruler, 
had returned to their allegiance. The rebel was beheaded in the 
ancient temple of Memory his consulship was abolished: ^148 
 
 
[Footnote 146: Orosius composed his history in Africa, only two 
years after the event; yet his authority seems to be overbalanced 
by the improbability of the fact. The Chronicle of Marcellinus 
gives Heraclian 700 ships and 3000 men: the latter of these 
numbers is ridiculously corrupt; but the former would please me 
very much.] 
 
[Footnote 147: The Chronicle of Idatius affirms, without the 
least appearance of truth, that he advanced as far as Otriculum, 
in Umbria, where he was overthrown in a great battle, with the 
loss of 50,000 men.] 
 
425 Ardabur segelt mit ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶stlicher Flotte nach Italien 
427 drei Tribuni? werden von mag. mil. Felix nach Africa geschickt, dort belagern sie comes Africae Bonifatius 
vielleicht noch im selben oder im Folgejahr segelt comes Sigisvult mit got. Truppen nach Africa 
431/32? Aspar segelt mit Truppen aus Konstantinopel nach Africa 
Bonifatius segelt - vielleicht samt seinen (got.) Truppen - aus Hippo Regius nach Italien 
441 ein ostrÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶m. Heer (mit 1100 Schiffen?, Dahn, Goten S. 162) unter 5 Feldherren (Areobindus, Ansila, Germanus, Arintheus d. JÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ngere) soll Africa angreifen, segelt aber nur nach Sizilien und kehrt nach Angriff der Hunnen 442 in den Osten zurÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ck 
455 eine vandalische Flotte segelt nach Portus, die Vandalen besetzen Rom 
 
456 400 Heruler in 7 Schiffen ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼berfallen nordspanische KÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ste. Sie werden von der BevÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶lkerung besiegt, 2 Heruler fallen. 
 
456 die Vandalen greifen die KÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼sten von Sizilien und Italien an. Rikimer kommt mit Truppen nach Sizilien und Korsika und besiegt vandalische SchiffsverbÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤nde 
After leaving Rome, Geiseric had left a powerful fleet essentially blockading the Italian coast. Ricimer led his own fleet out to sea, and in 456, defeated the Vandals in a sea-fight near Corsica, and on land near Agrigentum in Sicily. 
Meanwhile, early in the year, it seems, Marcian sent another embassy to Africa: 
"And Marcian sent to Gaiseric further letters and the ambassador Bleda, who was a bishop of the heresy of Gaiseric... When he arrived in his presence and realized that Gaiseric was not going to give heed to his embassy, he broke forth into headstrong words, saying that it would not profit him if, carried away by his present prosperity, he should be prepared to rouse the emperor of the eastern Romans to war against him... But neither the reasonableness of the words spoken before in the embassy nor the fear of threats induced Gaiseric to think moderately, for he dismissed Bleda without success, and dispatching a force again to Sicily and to the neighboring part of Italy, he ravaged it all "(fr.24). 
These renewed raids probably occurred in March, with the reopening of the sailing season. They provided Avitus with a means for keeping at least one of his Italian generals busy. Hydatius reported, 
"At this time it was announced to king Theoderic [of the Visigoths] that through Avitus a great multitude of Vandals, which had set out from Carthage for Gaul and Italy with sixty ships, was destroyed after being trapped by Count Ricimer... In Corsica there was a slaughter of a multitude of Vandals" (Chron. 176-177). 
Rikimer wurde anschlieÃƒÆ’Ã…Â¸end zum mag. mil. befÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶rdert 
459 eine vandalische Flotte wird an der KÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ste von Sinuessa bei der MÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ndung des Liris (nÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶rdlich von Neapel) geschlagen, der AnfÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼hrer, der Schwestermann Geiserichs, getÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶tet.1 
459/60 Maiorian lÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤sst 300 Schiffe fÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼r Angriff auf Africa bauen. Anscheinend sind sie nur zum ÃƒÆ’Ã…â€œbersetzen von Spanien nach Mauretanien gedacht, sollen also als Pendel-FÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤hren dienen und nicht die gesamte Streitmacht auf einmal ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼bersetzen. 
 
461 der zweite westliche Heermeister Marcellinus operiert in Sizilien gegen Geiserich. Seine Truppen bestehen aus got. SÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶ldnern aus Pannonien, die seinem dalmatinischen Machtbereich benachbart waren. Rikimer warb die SÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶ldner ab und zwang Marcellinus zur Flucht nach Dalmatien. 
unter Eurich (466-484) entstand ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾eine Art AtlantikflotteÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œ2. Sie bekÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤mpfte sÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤chsische Piraten an der aquitanischen KÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ste und griff (vor 475) am Niederrhein zugunsten von Erulern, Warnen und ThÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ringern gegen die Franken ein. 
467 And Hydatius notes that an initial western expedition, presumably under the command of Marcellinus, came to nought: "An expedition to Africa that had been organized against the Vandals was recalled because of a change in circumstances and the unsuitability of the weather" ("expeditio ad Africam adversus Vandalos ordinata, metabolarum commutatione et navigationis inopportunitate revocatur": Chron. 236 s.a.467). This expedition would have occurred in late 467, when the stormy winter weather of the mare clausum ("closed sea") would have prevented any further naval operations. 
 
468 GroÃƒÆ’Ã…Â¸angriff auf das Vandalenreich: 
aus dem Osten (Leo): 
1100 Schiffe mit angeblich 100000 M. aus dem Ostreich segeln ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ber Sizilien nach Africa; magister militum Basiliscus verliert ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾etwa die HÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤lfte seiner MannschaftenÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œ3 und mehr als 500 Schiffe 
Heraclius landet bei Tripolis und rÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ckt an Land auf Karthago vor; nach dem Scheitern von Basiliscus schiffte er sich wieder ein 
Westen (Anthemius): 
gleichzeitig besetzen westrÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶m. Truppen unter mag. mil. Marcellinus Sardinien; nachdem Vorauskommandos in Africa abgewiesen wurden, vereinigte er sich mit Basiliscus und zusammen besetzten sie Sizilien. Im Verband landeten die Flotten dann am Kap Bon in Africa; ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¾ein GutteilÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œ4 der westrÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶m. Schiffe konnte Marcellinus nach der Niederlage am Kap Bon wieder nach Sizilien retten 
75 Brander setzte Geiserich am Kap Bon ein 
 
470 erneuter Plan eines gemeinsamen Angriffs auf Africa: Rikimer mit 6000 Mann von Italien, ? Flotte aus dem Osten 
472 gallische Truppen unter Bilimer werden per Schiff ins von Rikimer belagerte Rom gebracht 
500 1000 got. Doryphoren mit 5000 bewaffneten Knechten begleiten die Braut Amalafrida nach Africa 
508 8000 M. in 100 Transportschiffen und 100 Kriegsschiffen (dromones) verheeren unteritalische KÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼ste. Marcellinus Comes 
526 Theoderich lÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¤sst 1000 Schiffe fÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼r Angriff auf Africa bauen. Diese sind auch als Getreidetransporter geeignet. 
533 Tzazo segelt mit 5000 Vandalen (Kriegern) in 120 Schiffen nach Sardinien 
Belisar segelt mit 500 Transport- und 92 Kriegsschiffen von Konstantinopel nach Africa. Sein Heer umfasst wohl 5000 Reiter und 10000 M. Infanterie. Zur Bewachung lieÃƒÆ’Ã…Â¸ Belisar auf jedem? Schiff 5 BogenschÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¼tzen. 
Five hundred transports, navigated by twenty thousand mariners of Egypt, Cilicia, and Ionia, were collected in the harbour of Constantinople. The smallest of these vessels may be computed at thirty, the largest at five hundred, tons; and the fair average will supply an allowance, liberal, but not profuse, of about one hundred thousand tons, (10) for the reception of thirty-five thousand soldiers and sailors, of five thousand horses, of arms, engines, and military stores, and of a sufficient stock of water and provisions for a voyage, perhaps, of three months. The proud galleys, which in former ages swept the Mediterranean with so many hundred oars, had long since disappeared; and the fleet of Justinian was escorted only by ninety-two light brigantines, covered from the missile weapons of the enemy, and rowed by two thousand of the brave and robust youth of Constantinople. Twenty-two generals are named,

Flavius Promotus · 10-16-2004, 02:33 PM

Wow, this is really an exhaustive survey ! 
Natuspardo, do you know Kienast's book on the imperial navies by heart ??? 
 
It is by now more than clear that the old idea of the 'fleet-less' late Roman age can no longer be sustained. On the contrary: lots of fleets and flotillas everywhere, even if some of them might have been rather small units. 
 
Perry, if you are looking for information on riverine fleets, I may be of some help (did a little research when we built the late Roman MAINZ A patrol boat at Regensburg).

10-18-2004, 09:59 PM

Yes, I am looking for information on the riverine fleets. Any information would be useful. 
 
Perry

Flavius Promotus · 10-20-2004, 08:19 AM

The powerhorse of the late Roman river navies were the so called "naves lusoriae", although it is not clear whether the term meant a specific type or more a wider category (rather the latter). 
 
According to Vegetius (4, 46, 9), these ships performed daily scouting missions on the Danube (nice to know ), but he saw this as such a normal thing that he did NOT write anything more about it ( ). 
This gap has therefore to be stuffed with all the bits and pieces available. 
Ammian mentiones Lusoriae twice during the campaigns of Julian at the Rhine frontier. They were used to keep the river Maas (mosa) from freezing over in order to keep a Frankish warband from escaping over the ice - the ships had to row up and down the river for almost the entire winter. Of course, ships and rowers had to be changed several times a day, but it was nevertheless a chilling task. 
 
The next time Ammian mentioned Lusoriae was when 40 of them were used to ferry an army unit over the Rhine to establish a small bridgehead on the other side. 
 
In 359, an unknown number of "medium sized fast ships", which can certainly be identified as Lusoriae, were used to deliver a raiding party behind the Allaman lines. They were very successful and managed to complete their duty without being spottet by the German tribes on the other side. The stroy shows the crews had to be very skilled since it was a dark night but we hear nothing of any collisions or accidents and they were also forced to row in a very silent way. 
 
The Lusoriae of Ammian are very likely to have had the same or at least a similar structure as the late Roman warships found at Mainz in the early 80s (type Mainz A). Fast and sleek patrol boats with a complement of about 30 rowers and a length of about 20 m. It is clear they were also used for transport duties since the findings suggest one of them once had a cargo of charcoal and once amphorae on board. Getting a small number of infantrymen into the ship should also have been no problem. 
 
Dendrochronology shows one of these ships had been in use for more than three decades ! 
 
Ammianus tells little about the situation at the Danube, but there is a fascinating report by Zosimos about a large number of Gothic canoes being intercepted and destroyed by Roman warships when the Goths tried to invade Roman territory. Claudian speaks of 3000 canoes (although you should not trust a panegyrist too far), and if this number is at least partially reliable, the losses of the Goths must have been horrible ! The Romans were forewarned and had time to scrape together everything they had but it was nevertheless a great achievement - the battle took place in a pitch black night and the (unfortunately garbled) text suggests the Roman warships nevertheless attacked in an orderly formation. (the helmsmen and other officers were certainly no rookies) The Roman units in this battle were under the command of the Magister Militum (per Thracias) whose name was... er... ok... Flavius Promotus 
(I think that explaines something ) 
 
Nobody knows how many ships a late Roman fleet had. There is an edict in the Codex Theodosianus which gives the order to restore the Lusoriae in the two lowermost Danube provinces (Moesia II and Scythia minor) to the number they once had: 100 for Moesia II and 125 for Scythia minor. The text also mentions other ship classes (iudicariae and agrarienses, although it is unclear what they were used for. The iudicariae were probably some kind of 'limousine' for state officials and similar pests...). 
There has been an attempt to calculate the entire number of Lusoriae on the Danube according to the numbers mentioned above, and it has been suggested it could have reached about 1000. This is possible, but not all provinces were as important as Moesia II and Scythia minor which guarded the approaches to the Empire's capital Constantinopel. 
 
The Notitia Dignitatum tells little abouot the situation on the Rhine (as far as I know, the sheet for the lower Rhine is lost), but it shows a large number of flotillas and similar units for the Danube. With the exception of Raetia (an error in the book ?) every single province has at least one small fleet and some have several. There is a map in an article by Olaf Hoeckmann and I know of another map (coloured) in an article on late Roman fleets on the Danube (published this year in an illustrated booklet on the Regensburg Lusoria). 
 
Hope this helps

Flavius Promotus · 10-22-2004, 04:54 AM

Just to mention it, 
read a passage from ReddÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â© yesterday in which he also writes something about the byzantine dromons of Belisarios. 
Perry, you want me to pass on some information?

Login
Username:
Password:	Lost Password?
	Remember me

Possibly Related Threads…
Thread		Author	Replies	Views	Last Post
	7th century Byzantine Navy Help?	L. Aufidius Pantera	15	3,890	04-07-2008, 03:09 AM Last Post: Ioannes_Ahenobarbus
	Is the Roman Navy a major navy in the world at that time???	jc02005	2	1,809	09-17-2007, 09:57 AM Last Post: caiusbeerquitius