Cataphract armor and horse questions

[M. Demetrius]

Must have been quite a sight! Do you have a picture of one of the carts?

BTW, you probably know, Semper Paratus is the motto of the USCG. Are you a Coastie? My son is.

[Urselius]

Must have been quite a sight! Do you have a picture of one of the carts?

BTW, you probably know, Semper Paratus is the motto of the USCG. Are you a Coastie? My son is.

It was, the carts were decorated with palm fronds and crammed with families having a sort of movable feast, as the procession made its way between the churches in neighbouring villages. I can't help thinking that the combination of oxen, rather highly strung horses, ridden by men in flat-brimmed hats with girls in bright dresses on the crupper, and rockets going off right and left wasn't all that well considered - I didn't see any injuries though!

I have photo's but they are with proper film, not digital. There's a web page with a similar bullock cart here:
http://www.andalucia.com/magazine/english/ed2/rocio.htm

Semper Paratus is similar to my old school motto, and "Parati!" was an exclamation used by the soldiers of the Byzantine army when in range of the enemy, the reply was "Adiuta" followed by a shout of "Deus!" Being in Latin it links my Roman and Byzantine interests, in a way. I have no connection with the Coastguard.

[bachmat66]

I understand where you're coming from. But I wouldn't want anybody to imagine riding as a Roman has to be expensive. For example, you don't need to breed your own horse.

I don't own a horse, although I seem to be borrowing one and paying for it's keep. Instead we hire the horses that work best for us. The major expense is having to pay to train. Even at £15 per hour it mounts up.

To be honest saddles are cheap second hand, at around £150 per saddle. But I wouldn't buy Indian made saddles. The major challenge is to get the tack to fit the horse.

I did an American Civil War event on my "Roman style" horse last year. We were looking up to our collegues the whole time. But stirrups were interesting. I couldn't resist mounting and dismounting as much as possible. It's a pity the horse didn't like the gun fire.

Salve,
I have a question-comment on your photos when riding in Roman 'uniform' etc., namely you always show in your pictures your spatha -sword being carried over the bowcase, no matter if your bow is in the rest postion or ready position. The images of bowmen with swords from Medieval and early modern periods always show the sword under the bowcase eg .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MongolCavalrymen.jpg
http://ahmadghareeb.com/files/Sipahi3.jpg
http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/imag ... archer.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/N ... 1526_1.jpg

So perhaps your method is more Roman way of carrying the bowcase/sword combination?

[John Conyard]

I need to say there are no indications of how Romans carried the bow case, or indeed what they looked like.

Having clearly stated that, I'm free to give an answer. I think it comes down to how much the sword, and the bow case, move while riding.

Your pictures show sabres suspended on long slings. The bow case worn over the sabre stops it rattling around. I have used such a combination and I know that this is the case.

Comitatus riders carry the spatha from a waist belt, secured by a scabbard slide. Often the bow case is tied to the same belt, or is attached to another waist belt. The bow case is secured with two ties, just in case one breaks. When carrying the bow in the bow case it is liable to bounce around hitting the leg. Carrying the spatha over the case helps secure it. The case can be pulled out from behind the spatha, and twisted around so the bow points forward to ease it's withdraw. When replacing the bow the case is twisted so the top laths point towards the rear, and the case is secued once more behind the spatha.

Kenneil iv.jpg[/attachment]

[bachmat66]

I need to say there are no indications of how Romans carried the bow case, or indeed what they looked like.

Having clearly stated that, I'm free to give an answer. I think it comes down to how much the sword, and the bow case, move while riding.

Your pictures show sabres suspended on long slings. The bow case worn over the sabre stops it rattling around. I have used such a combination and I know that this is the case.

Comitatus riders carry the spatha from a waist belt, secured by a scabbard slide. Often the bow case is tied to the same belt, or is attached to another waist belt. The bow case is secured with two ties, just in case one breaks. When carrying the bow in the bow case it is liable to bounce around hitting the leg. Carrying the spatha over the case helps secure it. The case can be pulled out from behind the spatha, and twisted around so the bow points forward to ease it's withdraw. When replacing the bow the case is twisted so the top laths point towards the rear, and the case is secued once more behind the spatha.

thanks a lot,
exactly what I was looking for - by the way what a dispaly of ancient military horsemanship and martial skills, all at once!

now your answer makes me wonder if these medieval and early modern horsemen from the Middle East, Ottoman, MOngol, Muscovy or Polish Commonwealth realms also somehow modified the 'normally' pictured bowcase-sabre arangements, because many of the Polish riders carried a hook on their sword belt where they attached the first scabbard ring when riding, and thus their sabre was carried almost like your spatha.
This is my favorite aspect of the reenacting, the part where one can learn and understand a bit more about ancient technologies, techniques and employment of equipment in 'action.'
ps
my little son liked your attached image a lot, especially the playground in the bacground, where he could go and play while dad would be watching the grownups play

[John Conyard]

I have two boys, five and seven, and most Comitatus venues have attached playgrounds. The Comitatus kids discuss their best playgrounds of the season, and the venues we need to return to. Ribchester was considered the best playground/Roman venue of last year.

There are pitfalls in extrapolating the practice of one period to another. But, I have come across a similar hook on the belt of my American Civil War rig. These hooks as I understand it, were to secure the sabre whilst on foot. On horseback I found myself securing the sabre under or behind my left leg. Carrying a sabre on long slings horizontally when charging on horse back allows you to draw a long curved weapon in one very smooth easy motion.