Legio XI parma

[caiusbeerquitius]

Very welcome!

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

You may have difficulty stopping anyone else making their own reconstruction of the shield boss, as the original boss is probably not copyrighted at all Alex. The images are in the public domain and have been for some time now :wink:

True, anyone can make a reconstruction of the original. What I meant, OUR reconstruction is copyrighted. That includes our version of the trunk which is missing on the original.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Hi Y'all, I'm new here! :mrgreen:

Welcome, Jennifer!

All - THIS IS the master and maker of the umbo and parma! All the laudes should go to her!

[Titus Juventius Tertius]

Pretty damn close to being exact of the original. Bet that took some doing to make it happen.

[Arminius Primus]

Ave,

Just had to add a denarius worth of thought on this! First off absolutely magnificent work! Plus credit also has to go to the folks that came up with the idea , the mold maker etc. Seems that the gods definitely smiled on all involved in this project.

I have always had the feeling that items like this were much more common than seen in any of our portrayals of the period. We are limited by cost and talent and patterns, where there seemed to be limitless talent available to the individuals we portray. Still , I think that an Umbo like that would have been a relatively costly investment in antiquity as well.

I will have to add " Horse Pectoral" to my institutional searches to see what Umbos may be lurking among the boxes of horse furniture in balkan museums.

Again Congrats !!

Regards from the Balkans, Arminius Primus aka Al

[Peroni]

but they cannot duplicate the reconstruction or the painting on the parma without the artist's express permission without it constituting infringement and legal action.

Which is why I asked Edge Gibbons for permission to use the eagle/fulmen design on a vexillum for a UK Museum :wink:
(I can post a pic if you like)

[Agesander]

I'd love to see a pic.
Copyright is a sticky issue, especially internationally! It becomes less sticky with art work, since that has been debated and treaty-ed for over 100 years. IF you copy from an ancient work directly, it is NOT under copyright (too long since creation,) but if you copy from someone's picture of an ancient item (directly) you infringe on the photographer's copyright! If you asked Legio XI for copyright of the images on the parma, you asked permission from the wrong person, not the copyright holder. Even the OWNER of a piece of artwork is NOT the owner of the COPYRIGHT, unless that work is "done for hire." (client has design and brings it to the artist for execution like the painting on the parma, like Alex did.) Fuzzy, huh? If you commission a piece like the umbo, like Alex did, HE does not have the right to reproduce it, only the artist has that!

If there is any interest in the accuracy or origins of the coloration or style of painting for the parma, I can site the sources for each element.

[Peroni]

I'd love to see a pic.

Here you go Jennifer - The vexillum currently hangs in Durham Museum

[Agesander]

NICELY DONE!
That eagle was based on a photo of a grave stella (I think, correct me Alex) with the eagle and the fulmen from a coin. The coloration was based on several mosaics of Ganymede and the Eagle and one small depiction of an eagle in Herculaneum.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Great vexillum, Ade! Jennifer, again - a magnificent eagle.

Yes, the eagle was modeled on a stella, and this particular image of the fulmen was taken from a coin.

I was happy to give Ade permission to use the image for the vexillum (he asked both Edge and me).

[PhilusEstilius]

I do understand the copyright situation on this particular reconstruction of the umbo, I have myself hand beaten out this umbo but not completed it so far as I have to make the trunk and tusks and fit as indeed the originals would have been.
I can't as yet put up a picture for my host web is not available at this time ( ie my son is not around just now it's one of his sites )
This boss belonged to the Gaetuli or Getuli a people of northwest Africa south of Mauri and Numidiae in the area of modern Morroco, they were conquered in early Imperial times by Cn. Cornelius Cassus Lentulus, who thereafter bore the surname Gaetulicus by the reign of the Emperor Domitian ( 81-96 AD ) they had been enrolled as loyal soldiers of Rome.
I do think that I have a good relief on my copy for it will take a mans fist inside of it, I have pics' of the original and tend to think that the Elephant cap or even the whole hair piece is applied but would need to view the inside of the original to say for certain. I think I'd stick my neck out to say yes the Elephant cap is applied.

[PhilusEstilius]

The closest parrallel to this is the rather dull half-figure bust of Africa in pensive pose and with an Elephant cap featuring truly African Pachyderm ears in the Museo Nasionali, Naples, from Pompeii.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

The said plate from the Bosco Reale Treasure, now at the Louvre, can be seen at http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... uxury.html or at the site of the museum here:
http://www.louvre.fr/llv/oeuvres/detail ... mLocale=en

A small statue of a man in the Metropolitan Museum features a similar head-dress (see below).

There are also coins with a similar head-dress, both Hellenistic and Roman. The former feature Alexander, and the latter — the Personification of Africa.

Finally, there is a fresco from Pompeii depicting a Personification of Africa standing next to the "Forsaken Dido": http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/img.htm?id=2136

[PhilusEstilius]

They are very good links indeed Alexander, enjoyed that lot !! I'd love to get loose on doing a repro of that dish have already done the Lauersfort dish and several times the small Mercury dish from the temple plate from Berthouville in France infact even gave a copy of that small one to Marion True of the Getty Museum.
This is a hobby that I realy love Roman artwork.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Bad news: The Catalogue is listed NOWHERE. Even the Library of Congress and the BM library don´t have one. So It looks like I´m not able to help here.