Painted cuirasses

[Matt Lukes]

So you've managed to get casein paint to stick to iron and have linseed oil paint not be just easily rubbed off despite feeling dry to the touch? Perhaps my linseed oil paint isn't truly dry after just two days (the recipe I found said 48 hours should be enough and it does seem dry), but the casein on iron was a pretty spectacular failure here...

[Dan Howard]

I'm pretty sure that we had a thread about painted bronze helmets a couple of years ago in this forum where positive evidence was presented. I haven't tried the search engine yet.

[Tarbicus]

The topic of painted armor brings to mind this quote from Xenophon on Agiselaos's preperations for war in Asia. The tanslator has used "weapons" for the greek term "hopla," but I think it is clear that armor is being made as well from the list of craftsmen.

Hellenica 3.4.1

[17] In fact, he made the entire city, where he was staying, a sight worth seeing; for the market was full of all sorts of horses and weapons, offered for sale, and the [size=150:ox305s38]copper-workers[/size], carpenters, smiths, leather-cutters, and painters were all engaged in making martial weapons, so that one15 might have thought that the city was really a workshop of war.

[17] axian de kai holên tên polin+ en hêi ên [tên Epheson] theas epoiêsen: hê te gar agora ên mestê pantodapôn kai hippôn kai hoplôn ôniôn, hoi te chalkotupoi kai hoi tektones kai hoi chalkeis kai hoi skutotomoi kai hoi zôgraphoi pantes polemika hopla kateskeuazon, hôste tên polin ontôs oiesthai polemou ergastêrion einai.

Now for a question that is sure to start another arguement. What profession is conspicuously absent from that list? hock:

My bold and large.

http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/5475.htm

5475. chalkos

copper or bronze

Original Word: ??????
Transliteration: chalkos
Phonetic Spelling: (khal-kos')
Short Definition: money

Definition
copper or bronze
NASB Word Usage
bronze (1), copper (1), gong (1), money (2).

money, copper or bronze

Perhaps from chalao through the idea of hollowing out as a vessel (this metal being chiefly used for that purpose); copper (the substance, or some implement or coin made of it) -- brass, money.

see GREEK chalao

http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/v ... umber=5474

Original Word Word Origin
???????????? from a compound of (5475) and (3030) (in the implied mean of whiteness or brilliancy)
Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
chalkolibanon khal-kol-ib'-an-on

Definition
1. some metal like gold if not more precious

Translated Words
KJV (2) - fine brass, 2;
NAS (2) - burnished bronze, 2;

Or were you saying that linen is absent? I may have got the wrong end of the stick, which I do from time to time. :wink:

[PMBardunias]

Or were you saying that linen is absent? I may have got the wrong end of the stick, which I do from time to time.

Sorry to stick you with the short end, but, yes, it was the linen workers who are absent. There are in fact two metal workers- Something like "Bronzeworkers" and "bronzecasters." If we assume that armor was being made there, probably a safe assumption, then it had to be constructed of bronze or leather. Of course you can have a lot of leather used in the construction of bronze and wood items of the panoply, but I don't think most would argue for all bronze thorakes at this date (perhaps it is evidence of that though). The "weavers" or some equivalent textile worker are conspicuously absent. Since clearly there would have been textiles for sale to the army for clothing, the fact that they are left off of the list of those professions needed to make armor and weapons, in Xenophon's view at least, would be evidence against the "linothorax" as a common armor type at this date. Note too, that we are in Asia Minor, where many have proposed the linothorax was more commonly used.

I don't have much of a dog in the either linen or leather fight, I think both are possible though I don't think glue likely ( I recently posted on another thread that a reference shows both used side by side). But this to me is surely evidence against linen in this specific context. Perhaps the discussion needs to move from "either/or" to "when/where".

[Matt Lukes]

So is there any actual physical evidence for painted armour? (back on topic :wink: )

[Tarbicus]

So is there any actual physical evidence for painted armour? (back on topic :wink: )

Sadly, only from medieval and Rennaisance (armour), and Greek (helmet) contexts.