Roma Surrectum

[Mythos_Ruler]

I like that Greece has so many regions. It makes sense to me. After all, Spartans, Makedonians, Epeirotes, Aetolians, and the Achaeans all fought for control of the area. Korinthos, Orchomenos, and a lot of other cities traded hands many times in the span of about 100 years. At one point Kydonia in Crete joined the Aetolian League. There was so much going on in this period that it's a shame it is not talked about more. The image of Greece is always about Athens vs. Sparta vs. Thebes vs. Athens, when reality, especially in this period, was much much more complicated than that. I would go as far as make twice as many regions in Greece, but halve their denarii output and halve their population growth and lower their loyalty significantly (so there are more rebellions). Make the region a real bear to conquer and control.

if I had my way I would make a full mod of my own with these facts in mind, focusing only on the Eastern Mediterranean, the Diadochi and lesser Greek states. My factions would be:

Kingdom of Macedon
Kingdom of Lysimachos (Hellenistic Thrakians/Odrysians)
Kingdom of the Attalids (Pergamon)
Kingdom of Epeiros (have Pyrrhos scripted to emerge at some point)
Kingdom of Seleukos
Kingdom of Ptolemy (owns a few cities here and there and mostly tries to bribe different factions off)
Aetolian League
Achaean League
Island of Rhodes
Athens
Sparta
Galatians (script them to invade from the North at some point and attempt to settle in Asia Minor)
Kingdom of Bithynia
Illyrians
Pontos (mostly pretty weak at first, but a bit player)
Republic of Rome (scripted to invade from the West at some point)
Rebel Cities Greeks
Rebel Cities Barbarians

That would be awesome. The map would be Greece proper, Southern Balkans, Thrake, the Aegean islands, Crete, and most of Asia Minor to about Cilicia, and include all kinds of rebel and independent cities. City loyalty would be difficult to maintain. The loyalty bonus to massacres would be reduced (if possible, but perhaps this is hardcoded).

[Quinn_Inuit]

Sadly, a lot of that is hardcoded. For instance, effectively halving population growth isn't possible, although you can throttle it a bit. Similarly, there's no good way to halve trade income. You can minimize the bonuses that accrue, but you can't really halve it. You can halve tax income, but in most mods that's trivial.

[Mythos_Ruler]

How about eliminating or increasing the cost for buildings that increase population growth for those cities?

[aquilifer]

Well if you gonna cut regions away in greece, any chance you can still let olympia and delphi in?

Very important sites that I kinda missed in the original rtw

[Mythos_Ruler]

Cutting regions out of Greece to me says they are ignoring the Achaeans and Aetolians. No struggle over Megalopolis or Argos. None of that.

[Quinn_Inuit]

How about eliminating or increasing the cost for buildings that increase population growth for those cities?

I don't think that would work, because then the buildings overwhelm the low initial modifiers. Negative modifers may not work at all in this context--I need to do more research. You can put them in and the scroll says they're working, but that doesn't always mean anything. You need to actually sit down and watch the population numbers.

Well if you gonna cut regions away in greece, any chance you can still let olympia and delphi in?

Very important sites that I kinda missed in the original rtw

Not in an "Iberia to India"-scale mod, no. Thessaly, Ambrakia, Aetolia, Euboea, Attica, and Corinth+Sparta in the Peleponnesus. Maybe one more, I suppose. I'd like to work in Delphi, but I just can't see cutting another region elsewhere. So many other areas are underserved as-is...the 200-region limit is annoying.

OTOH, the new RTR that's going to come out soon is focused on the Punic and Macedonian Wars, so it has a lot more room to work with in Greece. I'm pretty sure those are both in there.

Cutting regions out of Greece to me says they are ignoring the Achaeans and Aetolians. No struggle over Megalopolis or Argos. None of that.

Aetolians? No way we'd ignore the Aetolians. I'm actually fleshing them out more in the next version.

Argos won't fit, unfortunately. Like Delphi, I just don't have the space and I'm worried about the trade network effects unbalancing the region. I know the Argives were important, but IMO the Aetolians were more important and for longer into our time period.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I don't think Argos would be its own faction, but a Greek rebel city. Ideally in my mind the Peloponnese would have Corinth, Argos, Sikyon, Megalopolis, Messene, Sparta, Elis, and Patrai. Other cities could include Epidauros, Orchomenos, Thyrea, Tegea, and Olympia (maybe even Gytheios, the port of Sparta). But I understand you are going in a different direction, so that's fine.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Will the next version of Roma Surrectum be mod switch?