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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
I don't think anyone in this thread has supported the 'London dash' theory.
I think "Tim" supported this only the other week, ok it was just reported here, but the theory is alive and well in academia, it's in all the books and tv specials. Personally I'm 90% sure Paulinus went to London, although I seem to be rather more skeptical about the accuracy of the texts than everyone else (I just have to live with being an outsider on that Sad ). But we are all working on the basis that he went to London then went somewhere else at some distance from London as the civilains weren't all up to the trip, this could imply speed or distance or both were the problem for these individuals.

So the question is still did he go to London with a relatively small mobile force to have a look at the situation or did he commit to bring his entire column (very long and very slow) with him to check out the situation? I am certain we don't have an answer to that question.

In speculating about this we have to invoke the issue of the RV with Legio II. They could have been tasked to join up with the main body either at a single known RV, or along a line, such as a road, maybe Akeman Street. Of the two I would judge the point destination to be the more likely, certainly as Paulinus was working it out as he went along in terms of heading to London and only then making the strategic decision to stay or go. If he set an RV at a known secure point, secure in terms of defensive topography and secure from an enemy who threatened his eastern flank, it would be a muster point for not only the big forces such as Legio II but also for any small garrisons that couldn't just go bimbling around looking for a column on the move. This seems the most cautious/sensible strategy so fitting Nathans interpretation of Paulinus' character.

In our 3 current campaign models Paulinus went down to London and then with, or without his slow moving column he went back up Watling Street (I'm deliberately missing out the West for the moment);

1, to Tring.....................32 miles
2, to Dunstable.............35 miles
3, to Church Stowe.......64 miles

If option 1 or 2 are the site, then the distance from London is not great, I contend it is not far enough to put off any civvy apart fom the most infirm and if the whole army were present the column would be moving at a relatively slow pace so easy to tag onto.

If the choice is option 3 it is rather more off putting in terms of distance for the civvies but with an attached column it is still do-able with baggage carts etc.

This suggests to me that both Tring and Dunstable are too close and, with a slow moving column, too achieveable for civvies for their abandonment to be worthy of mention. It also suggests that if the entire column was headed back up Watling Street, that CS is still an easy destination for civilians BUT as a slow moving column it would be wide open to an Iceni approach from the East. I therefore contend that only CS has the distance criteria to put off the civvies and only not having a full column speeds the Romans up enough to put off said civvies. I must therefore conclude that Paulinus' brief separation from his main body by a 48 hour "London Recce" cannot be written off as easily as is being suggested here and furthermore the perceived "speed and distance" problem identified by the residents of London, may in fact encourage us to think about a greater distance of travel from London as a determinant on where the site may be. This may also impact on the judgement of any Thames Valley proposals where any less mobile civvies could have got on a barge.

Hopefully Moi will chip in on how feasible a "dash" would be from CS to London one day, overnight in the city, then a one day trip back up Watling Street. My instinct is that a 64 mile trip on road maybe a bit chaffing but, under the duress of a massive rebellion, would be feasible in order to understand and judge a fast changing situation. (I note on another thread Moi suggests 80KM/50 miles as being in the frame, but could this be extended if horses are changed over in London or en route, so maybe there is courier range to consider too, Pony Express doing 75 miles a day)

Nathan has repeatedly made the point that this would be entirely alien to a cautious general like Suetonius.
I made two points earlier in this post, 1, that I have less respect for the texts than others here and 2, that in fact a northern RV is probably a reasonable cautious response by Paulinus. In making these points I know I will be rubbing some people up the wrong way but there is a fundamental difference in speculation process going on in this thread.

I'm not an historian or a lawyer, I'm a geographer I deal primarily with land, I come at this project literally from the ground up. I believe those from text based professions come to the interpretation through a text down process. Personally I think this is very stimulating and useful for the project, however I don't accept the primacy of the text, it is a subordinate component to the land for me. My current observation is that the text is too dominant in many candidates sites, resulting in weak geographical proposals either strategically or topographically. So please do not be offended when I don't buy into the certainty some hold for the particular subtle interpretations of text or character. When we have seen sites effectively written off it is not the text that has done this, it is the intractable realities of topography and distance.
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by John1 - 03-22-2015, 12:27 PM

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