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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
Quote:I haven't seen anything to suggest the western route is "more" likely, so I can't let that statement go un-challenged. The western route remains a possibility but no more than that.
I seem to remember you offering to throw in the towel on precisely that issue a couple of months back, John! :wink: But you're right, of course - both routes are no more than possibilities, as there's so much we don't know... I don't see anyone bringing down the gavel on this problem any time soon!

Quote:I think the site falls down horribly on the water supply issues.
This is a problem, but perhaps not an insurmountable one. Chalk is notoriously dry, but around the edges of the Chilterns there are springs and streams; Ouzel Brook, about a mile north-west of Dunstable, drains a wide area of flat ground. If (as I suggested above), Paulinus made his camp around the site of modern Dunstable itself he would have access (albeit distant) to water. The Britons, on the other hand, would have a thirsty journey up from the south-east...

Quote:The tactical situation suggests the high ground isn't defensible in a meaningful way due to flanking potential from Markyate onto the ridge.
Again true, although I think you'd be hard pressed to find a site that couldn't be flanked by a determined and well-informed enemy. One possibility might be that the Britons had large numbers of carts with them, which they were unwilling to leave unprotected while their warriors (all members of family groups) sallied off up the hills looking for the Romans...

Quote:I believe the chalk downlands were cleared of woodland fairly early but I cannot be certain in this particular location.
In this case I can offer at least a shred of evidence - the area around Dunstable and the north-west slopes of the Chilterns was notoriously forested in the early middle ages; "Leofstan, abbot of St. Albans, was obliged, a short time before the Conquest, to clear the Chiltern hills of their forests, which afforded a retreat to banditti", says the Gentleman's Magazine of 1821 (!), and a royal proclamation of 1110 ordered the area of Dunstable to be deforested, as it was 'a haunt of robbers'. Patterns of forestation in antiquity are another of those known unknowns, but I think we'd be safe in assuming forests hereabout...

Quote:There is no plain, even with the most optimistic eye I cannot see one.
I see the plain - it's more the hills I'm worried about!
Here's a view from Google, looking more or less due east across the widest area of the 'plain', from just south-east of the junction of the A4 and Dunstable Road. The wooded area to the left slopes up towards the higher escarpment; the slopes behind the viewpoint are rather steeper and closer to the road:

[attachment=3801]Panorama1.jpg[/attachment]

And here's the view a little more south-east from the same position - the buildings are Lodge Farm and Turnpike Farm:

[attachment=3802]Panorama2.jpg[/attachment]

That appears to me to offer enough open and relatively level ground for a battle - or at least what an observer might refer to as an 'open plain'. I suspect that the elevation of the surrounding hills is rather deceptive in these views - they could be steeper than they look!

Quote:It seems pretty clear that the numbers involved on both sides wouldn't just turn up and fight, more likely a day or even 3 of forces mustering together.
Quite so. I would imagine that Paulinus and his men had been in the vicinity for some days, camping over the saddle in the Dunstable area (after clearing the trees, of course!). The Britons would be progressing very slowly up Watling street from St Albans (about a day away by cart) - once the Romans revealed themselves the British would be plugged in the defile south of Jockey Farm. I can imagine them spending quite some time bringing their fighting men to the front and spreading along the slopes of the hills. Their deployment, however, would be naturally hampered by the 'defile' - quite possibly they just camped along the line of the road.

As for your other points, as I say there are a great many things we simply don't know - did Paulinus know what had happened to II Augusta? Was he waiting for them to join him (coming up the Iknield way, perhaps, if he was north of London?) How aware were the Britons of what Paulinus was doing? Where were these fortified places they supposedly bypassed? Would Boudica have deliberately led her force northwards to seek and destroy Paulinus? How much effective control could she (or whatever other commander(s) the Britons might have had) actually exercise over the very large British force? Did they move in a mass, or in a multitude of ravaging bands? And so on...


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Nathan Ross
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Nathan Ross - 04-24-2012, 04:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM

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