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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
Quote:Renatus wrote:

Well, with a change of assumption here and the addition or deduction of an event there, you, Nathan and I have managed to create four different scenarios.

Totally agree but you have to take in cause and effect in all of this. For instance the cause of the message being sent to Colchester in the first place in Nathan’s scenario (not mine) is the Muster. The effect is the message being sent on to Catus etc. So there are certain timescales which follow on
It goes without saying that certain actions will have consequences and that these may affect the timescale. All I have done is suggest a series of timings that would allow Paulinus to arrive in London with time to spare. However, given that the sources give us no more than a sequence of events with only one specific time (that the colonists in Colchester held out in the Temple of Claudius for two days and even that is open to interpretation), there are so many imponderables that any timescale that we may come up with is pure speculation. The best that we can do is to suggest a narrative that fits the information that we have.


Quote:You have the Iceni having their tribal assembly on May the 20th. If this was the muster then even using oxen to travel the 50 miles to Colchester they would have been there by the 27th.
The tribal assembly was a suggestion of Nathan’s and I do not know precisely what he had in mind for it. However, such a meeting seems plausible. For my part, I do not see it as the muster attested in the sources but as an earlier meeting of tribal leaders and their nobles, after which those agreeing to join the revolt would have dispersed to their homelands to gather their forces. This could have delayed the departure for Colchester quite considerably and, perhaps, for longer than I allowed for in my timescale.


Quote:I am not convinced however that the Iceni would have their families with them at Colchester with the wagons even in this scenario.
This is dependent upon how we see the intentions of the rebels. If they intended to return home after sacking Colchester, they might well not have taken their families; if they intended to proceed on to London and elsewhere, the families would have been with them from the outset.


Quote:If London was a key objective to them I beleive that they would have bypassed Colchester and attacked an undefended London much earlier.

I have a completely different theory as you know and am only trying to show that the Brython’s main target was not London.
I don’t think that anyone has claimed that London was the main target of the Britons but it would almost certainly have been a target. Colchester would have been of great symbolic importance, being the ancient tribal capital of the Trinovantes, the first Roman colonia and the site of the Temple of Claudius, as well as being the home of the arrogant and hated veterans. As I have argued before, the Britons were aiming for centres of Romanisation, of which Colchester may well have been the primary objective for its symbolism and London the second for its wealth.


Quote:Renatus wrote:

1. The sources give no suggestion of the Iceni and others returning home. They give the impression of a non-stop rampage.

I agree that they did not go back either but in that case why did they turn back to face Cerealis?
I thought that you were arguing that the rebels had returned to their homelands in anticipation of Roman retaliation and that they only advanced on London when they realised that it was not coming. Have you changed your mind? As to the attack on Cerialis, I think that, in a sense, you answered this question yourself earlier when you spoke of parts of the rebel army “turning” to face Cerialis. I would suggest that, fired up after the destruction of Colchester, when they heard of the approach of a Roman army, it would have been only natural for the Britons to turn to confront it, especially if they could take it by surprise and ambush it on the march (this is something else that Tacitus does not actually say).


Quote:This seems to imply that you think that the Iceni and Trinovantes were joined by other tribes at Colchester or London or both. Am I understanding you correctly?
Yes. Although the tribes appear to have agreed to act in concert, tribal suspicions probably persisted and those other than the Iceni and Trinovantes would have been anxious to secure their fair share of the spoils. I, therefore, see at least some of them as being present at both Colchester and London.


Quote:3a. If the Iceni and Trinovantes are waiting for Paulinus in their homelands you are correct in stating that London is not under threat but how long can Paulinus stay in one place from a food point of view? He has a small army and Londoners to feed.
London was a major entrepôt, so I don’t think food would be a problem. There would be stocks there and more could be shipped in, if required. If he did find himself running short, Paulinus would do what he would if besieged, retain the able-bodied and turf out those who could not contribute. It may seem harsh but that is how the ancient world worked. He did something analogous when he left the town; he took those who could keep up and left the others to their fate.


Quote:If he waits for re-inforcements where are they coming from?

If the Second will not come how can he force them?
Ultimately, he could draw troops from the West Country and South Wales. His immediate source of reinforcement, however, would be the Second Legion and, if Postumus would not march, he would replace him with someone who would.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Renatus - 10-16-2012, 09:52 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM

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