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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
Renatus wrote:

Even so, there will always be some who will stick it out for one reason or another. Perhaps they believe that the danger is not as great as has been made out or they think that help will come or they are reluctant to leave their homes for fear of looters or they simply refuse to leave. Logic does not always come into it and it is often those who feel that they have the most to lose who are the last to leave. Among the reasons given by Tacitus for people not leaving London with Paulinus was “the attractiveness of the place” (loci dulcedo)!


I am not disputing that there were refugees still there when Paulinus arrived but typically the rich can and do leave. Some others went with Paulinus and some stayed but there would not have been that many.

It is interesting that if they knew the huge numbers that were supposed to be on their way that they stayed. So perhaps they did not know at the time how large the host was coming their way.

Of course the really interesting part of this is why Paulinus took any refugees with him. He does not seem the compassionate type – certainly not against the Brythons either at Anglesey, at the Battle or afterwards.

Renatus wrote:

Nevertheless, there is only so much that he could have taken with him.

I agree but he is likely to have taken everything he could.

Renatus wrote:

I have emphasized the symbolic nature of Colchester and, geographically, it was the first Roman centre that the rebels would reach but I maintain that London was still a major target.

Although I can agree that the Temple of Claudius was a major Roman symbol and that Colchester was the capital of the province at the time.

On the other hand the Trinovantes although Roman allies for over a century had their riches and lands taken away from them and treated as second class citizens. A lot of this was about revenge and recapturing what they thought was theirs.

Renatus wrote:

I doubt that we will ever agree about this but let me make two points. First, the Acricola carries the clear inference, it seems to me, that the force that attacked the troops and stormed the forts was the same as invaded the colony.

Secondly, the attack upon the Ninth appears in the Annals immediately after the description of the storming of the Temple and was carried out by the “victorious Britons”. It is evident that both events involved the same rebel force or elements of it. Your previous suggestion that part of the rebel army “turned” to meet the Ninth seems to be entirely plausible.


I am of a mind where I see that each tribe would need to strive to retake their own properties and re-establish the aristocratic structure. There would have been no requirement for a combined force to take Colchester which was virtually undefended.

I still maintain that for the Iceni and the Trinovantes to have vacated their own homelands would have been suicide if the Ninth, Fourteenth and the Second had invaded from the North, East and South East.

Renatus wrote:

There is a danger here of re-writing history. Tacitus states unequivocally that Postumus committed suicide because he had disobeyed orders and denied his legion a share in the glory.

It seems evident from this that, if he had obeyed Paulinus’ command to join him, the legion would have marched and would have taken part in the final battle.


You have an excellent point. Far from trying to re-write history I am trying to understand it. Postumus would have been one of the bravest and experienced and trusted men in his Legion so there must have been very good reasons for him not have obeyed the summons from Paulinus.

There are many reasons postulated, a split Legion, being attacked by an uprising, ordered by his superiors to stay put, reports of a countrywide uprising etc.

It may have even been that Postumus like Cerealis had an overriding duty to defend against local uprisings and in fact was doing just that. The difference between him and Cerealis was that Cerealis was well connected.

My point is that the other officers must have supported his actions in such an important summons otherwise he would have been replaced.

As Nathan Ross states even the men under Paulinus on Anglesey nearly didn’t obey him and this is by no means the only type of this action.

So whatever the reason for the Second not going to Paulinus’ aid just replacing the commander may well not have got the Legion to join him.

Your point was that if Paulinus stayed in London the Second would have eventually joined him. I am not so certain which is one of the main reasons that Paulinus left London.


Renatus wrote:

I think that we are both of the opinion that Paulinus withdrew to the west. This would bring him nearer to the Second and further away from the other legions (unlike you, I believe that the Twentieth was in North Wales). Events moved too quickly for Paulinus to link with any of the legions that might have reinforced him but, if the rebels had not, in effect, followed him, I can envisage him establishing a base somewhere on the Fosse Way and commanding the Second, Twentieth and, if it could make it through enemy-held territory, the remnants of the Ninth to proceed along the Fosse to join him. Alternatively, he might have withdrawn as far as Gloucester or Usk.


I certainly agree with you. I think that is exactly what he would have done and in fact may have been in the process of doing. Abandoning London must have seemed to the Brythons that the Romans were actually retreating and perhaps they took the decision to follow him once they had pillaged London.

Of course SP may well have taken into account both options.

Renatus wrote:

It is evident that Catus was not based in Colchester at the time of the revolt.

You are patently correct which is where you would expect a person who was in charge of taxes and commerce to be, which re-inforces the importance and convenience of London for taxation purposes.

Kind Regards - Deryk
Deryk
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Deryk - 10-22-2012, 04:18 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM

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