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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
Don't now choose Dorking, Bulbourne or Ogbourne St. George - no, that is inappropriate. Better to identify the most prospective sites and then develop a programme to investigate them all.

".. it seems sensible to suggest that the actual battle-site probably does lie at one of the Portway sites – Ogbourne St. George being top of that list – or at Dorking, or at one of the higher-ranking sites within the Bulbourne river valley. That leaves three locations to be studied further, two of which are quite small in area, Ogbourne St. George and Dorking, and the third stretches linearly along a river, the Bulbourne. That should be simple enough! But, if that fails, other top 20 sites await."


Renatus wrote, "The trouble with this is that Tacitus places some emphasis on the topographical features of the battlefield, i.e., the defile, the wood at the rear and the open plain to the front of the Roman position. If a river had been present to offer an advantage or detriment to either side, one might have expected him to have mentioned it. Also, a small river may present a minor obstacle in its pristine state but, after it has been churned up by the passage and re-passage of thousands of soldiers and animals, it becomes much more of a problem."

Tacitus might have simply failed to mention the river or, it being so small, felt it not worth mentioning. In anycase, he didn't mention more important information - which road Suetonius took from London and where the battle occurred! As for the churned ground, that would benefit the Romans until they had advanced approx. 1 km and then they still had the relative advantage because of hobnails.

Renatus wrote, "Tacitus' failure to mention a river is not just troubling; it is fatal. One of the classic ways to protect a flank is to anchor it on a river. If Suetonius had done this, Tacitus would undoubtedly have said so. Instead, he describes the Romans being drawn up in a defile. In other words, both flanks were protected by higher ground. That is the sort of site we should be looking for. Forget rivers."

The Mole was too small to fully protect a flank; no anchoring possible. Plus, there are too many unknowns in Tacitus' account to allow us to be quite so certain.

Nathan Ross wrote, "The Bulbourne today is, as you say, a rather insignificant chalk stream, rising a little below Dudswell."

I'm confused by this and the comments that follow. I was not writing about the modern Bulbourne. Have you misunderstood that the figures I gave for the Bulbourne and Mole are for 60/61 AD - they are not modern? I've altered my text to reflect this possibility.

As a general point, What later folk did with the available Bulbourne water is of no consequence to the examination of the candidate battle-site in 60/61 AD.


Deryk wrote, "Also that there were two rivers either side of the Tring Gap – one going North (the Wendover Stream) and one going South (the River Bulbourne) for the time we are interested in."

Correct in as much as there was a watershed at about Tring Station. But, Wendover Stream used to run in the valley south of the BUlbourne and exit the Chilterns escarpment at Wendover before joining the Thame; nothing to do with Bulbourne valley.

Deryk wrote, "As opposed to rivers and lakes being a source of fresh water, do natural springs or the ability of the Roman Army to bore wells, figure in any of the calculations of where it might be reasonable to obtain water for an army camp?"

Nearly all spring water flows to streams > rivers. Are you asking about 'temporary marching camps' in general or Suetonius' camp in particular? If the former, then reading some chap's essay here on marching camps, their placement, and reliance on water from rivers might help. Roman military did dig wells and used those they came across. Suetonius would not have had time to dig new wells for his force (15,000 humans, 2500 mules and unknown horses) and in anycase his requirement could not have been satisfied by wells.

Nathan Ross wrote, "the river might also present a problem for the right-flank cavalry, who would have to form on the riverbank itself and advance along it, as the slopes of Box Hill are too steep. Not sure if riverbank vegetation might count as 'ambuscades', but that would only affect the cavalry and auxiliaries on the right."

The right flank would have been tight and difficult for cavalry, but there is an area of lower gradients where they could have stood. Plus, we don't know how many cavalry there were - might have been small. As for vegetation, it's a reasonable supposition that Suetonius had been at the site for a number of days. During that time he would have prepared his ground, much as he did during the later civil war (Cremona, 69 AD).
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 03-07-2015, 12:39 PM

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