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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
Wink 
Whew!!!

You guys are going too fast for me to keep pace!!! [Image: wink.png]

Here are a few observations from a day or so ago....... and a couple from today 

Renatus wrote:
1.  It is inconceivable that Paulinus would have embarked upon a campaign taking him and the greater part of his army to the westernmost tip of the island, if he had been aware of a major rebellion brewing in the east.

Completely Agree

Renatus wrote:

2.  The inhabitants of Colchester became aware of their danger at a late stage, just in time to notify the procurator in London and for him to dispatch a hastily-gathered force of 200 ill-armed men to the colony, and to inform Cerialis and for him to set off with whatever part of his legion that was immediately available to march.

Obviously none of the Romans really thought that there was a major danger. Firstly the 200 soldiers that were sent were apparently ill equipped. Secondly no defences were raised and finally none of the old, infirm and young were sent away.

Renatus wrote:

3.  News of the rebellion did not reach Paulinus until his operation in Anglesey was in its final stages and, indeed, he may actually have been on his way back to London, in the company of the Fourteenth Legion, which may have been intended to stop at its base at Wroxeter, leaving him to continue to London with his bodyguard.

Tacitus states that Seutonius was “securing the island” when he heard the news which would indicate that he was still in Anglesey.

Renatus wrote:
1.  The rebels planned the rebellion well in advance but kept their intentions so secret that the news only leaked out at the last minute.

2.  Officials were aware of unrest but did not take it seriously and did not think it worth telling the governor.

3.  Paulinus knew of unrest amongst the Iceni but thought that it was confined to that tribe and that Cerialis and the Ninth Legion could deal with any trouble that might arise.


It seems that a combination of these points contains the reality.

The officials were not only aware of the unrest but perhaps even expected it but thought it would be a localised uprising.

Knowing the Iceni history that they had already risen up previously when they had been forcibly disarmed, the Romans must have been aware of the risk and probably had made contingency plans with Cerialis to cover any uprising.  

Also Prasutugus was probably a calming influence and with his death perhaps the anti Roman faction of the Iceni were in no mood to be cowed.

Possibly the citizens of Colchester just wanted to be sure and asked Catus for some soldiers to be sent just in case some of the locals rioted in the city.

Certainly they, nor the military, didn’t think they were going to be attacked by the tribes as previously stated.

The Iceni made their plans, re-armed and made alliances with the Trinovantes and the “others” behind the smokescreen of local upset.     

Renatus wrote:

4.  The outrage against the Iceni occurred after Paulinus had set off on campaign and the rebels organised the revolt very quickly, with only the Iceni and the Trinovantes involved at the outset.  

Tacitus is pretty explicit that it wasn’t only the Trinovantes and the Iceni but that “others” were involved.

I am not sure that the tribes would have risen up had the majority of the army been in their area but of course they weren’t.

Probably the Second were somewhere in the West, debateable as to where exactly. The Twentieth were keeping the Silures and the Ordovices within their borders. The Fourteenth were moved to Wroxeter or on campaign and the Ninth were at Longthorpe and guarding the Brigantes borders.

So if the 14th were being assembled at Wroxeter the tribes would have realised that they were going to attack “North Wales”.

Nathan Ross wrote:

The division of power between Paulinus and Catus is an interesting unknown. It does seem as if the procurator had unusual authority over the 'pacified' regions; Paulinus may have though he could leave the administration of the Iceni to Catus. But doubtless the procurator would have informed him as soon as news of a large scale hostile force reached him.

The “tax collecting” part of the operation was definitely the Procurator’s responsibility and his allegiance was directly to the Emperor. When the next Procurator was installed Paulinus and he were at loggerheads as Paulinus was killing off the native Brythons rather than enslaving them. In fact he tried to have Paulinus removed. 

Nathan Ross wrote:

However, it's possible that Paulinus and his army were already based in the west, perhaps at Wroxeter, and had been since the previous year's campaigning.

I think that this is a valid proposition with Paulinus readying the 14th Legion for the up and coming campaign against North Wales.

Nathan Ross wrote:

As I mentioned above, the revolt must have started around the time of spring planting, and the major battles were completed before the autumn, when Paulinus received reinforcements from the Rhine and sent his army into winter quarters.

Not really sure about this. There would have already have been a planting of Winter wheat which would have been ready for 
the summer of AD61 and this is the predominant crop in the southern UK.

Furthermore it is almost inconceivable that a people who relied on growing their own food to exist would not have planted for their needs.

It seems more likely that because of the high death rate from Boudica’s last battle and because of the continuance of the war against the Brythons “by the whole army” winter wheat was not planted in September, because so many had gone to war (and were still being hunted down) and therefore it was in AD62 the famine really hit.

Nathan Ross wrote:

*EDIT - another possibility: Paulinus may have sent his request for reinforcements after he heard of the defeat of Cerialis but before the final battle, perhaps while he was in London pondering his options. This might extend the time available for the 'delay and manoeuvre' stage of the campaign and set back the final confrontation. But it would not alter the timing of the revolt's beginning or the advances on London by much.

It is possible that he did send for re-inforcements at this stage as he was at a port that he held at that time and he was preparing to abandon it.

Nathan Ross wrote:

After taking London and ravaging the Thames valley up to Staines, the rebels turn north. Paulinus pulls back to either Dunstable or Tring.

Possible but why go as far as Staines?

Nathan Ross wrote:

As you know, I find the suggested site near Tring altogether too vulnerable - any site which positions its battle line facing away from the direction of the enemy advance is going to have this problem.

I really don’t understand this argument. 

Why do you think that they are facing away from the advance Brythons?

If the Brythons had come from London, St Albans or from Staines they would have come up the Bulbourne Valley to Tring. 

If they came down the Ickneld Way they would have come to Tring. 

Chivery Top controls Tring, Akeman Street and the Icknield Way and as the highest position in the County has incredible views over the approaches from every direction.

I have attached a diagram which I  hope helps? 


.pdf   ROMANS AT TRING.pdf (Size: 180 KB / Downloads: 8)

As far as Dunstable is concerned if any Brythons from North of the Icknield Way arrived, which according to John's scenario could have happened, then Paulinus would have been caught between two forces.

If the Iceni did not want to engage Paulinus and were heading for home I think that after St Albans they would have gone via Braughing to the East along the established route.

They themselves were masters of the ambush so it is unlikely they would not scout ahead for ambuscades.

If they did want to fight Paulinus they would have gone as far as Church Stowe, or Dunstable or Tring. 

Of course if they didn't want to fight none of the sites mentioned would be relevant.

The logic and the texts do favour the fact that they wanted to destroy Paulinus. 

Could have Paulinus have "dug in"? 

I would have thought that this was an almost definite "yes" (even if un-Roman).

Caesar did at Alesia with a double wall, one to siege the Gauls in Alesia and one to protect him and his from the Gallic relief columns that were on their way.

The Roman Army had at the most around 11, 000 men and some more refugees and his opposition had 230,000 people in their army.

Defensive measures were a must to stop themselves being overwhelmed.

Deryk



  
Deryk
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand. - by Theoderic - 11-30-2015, 06:39 PM

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