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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
(09-18-2016, 09:19 AM)Alecto Wrote: Could you recommend a good translation?

I think that the most widely used translation is the Loeb, although that is not without its problems. For instance, in the passage we have been considering it reads, 'altogether some ten thousand armed men' but there is no word for 'altogether' in the Latin. The older Church & Brodribb translation is available online and is still useful.

(09-18-2016, 09:19 AM)Alecto Wrote: Hunt notes that there is a dash either side of - amounting to nearly ten thousand men - which makes the phrase  ambiguous. It could even mean there were some 10000 auxilliaries in addition to the detachments from the XIVth and XXth?

Again, Hunt has misled himself by relying on the Penguin translation. In the Loeb and Church & Brodribb versions, as well as that in The Latin Library online, the phrase in enclosed in commas. As far as we know, the Romans did not use such punctuation, so any that there is relies upon the interpretation of the individual editor of the text. Accordingly, we have to look at the wording to get the sense and, once again, the Penguin translation is misleading in that it changes the emphasis. What the Latin says is that Suetonius had the Fourteenth Legion with the veterans of the Twentieth and auxiliaries from the nearest (forts), nearly 10,000 armed men. Literally translated, the phrase reads, 'nearly ten thousand of armed men' and I have no doubt that the number applies to the whole force; it would be very odd if Tacitus gave a figure for only part of it.

(09-18-2016, 11:07 AM)Theoderic Wrote: Renatus wrote:

And remember that Tacitus states in relation to the Boudican revolt that those of all ages had gone to the war (omni aetate ad bellum versa, Annals 14.38).

You are correct – it is specific BUT this could very well mean that men from boys to the more mature for example 10 years – 55 years and young women. Child soldiers are still used to this day but Roman troops did not consist of these age groups on the whole.

I think that this statement only applies to the final battle.  


I still do not subscribe to the argument that babes, very young children, young girls or the elderly would have gone to war specifically to fight. 

The only time this happens is when a tribal migration is opposed (Julius Caesar) and this does not appear to be that.

The statement does not relate simply to the final battle. It explains why the rebels suffered hardship during the winter, because they had not planted crops because those of all ages had gone to war.

Obviously, only those capable of bearing arms would have gone to fight but their families could have accompanied them to provide support. As Nathan has said, in effect, for 'wives' read 'wives and children'. Moreover, if all the fighting men had gone to war, they would have been reluctant to leave their families behind unprotected, where they would have been vulnerable to Roman retaliation or attack by the tribe's traditional enemies. The natural remedy would have been to take them with them. It has been suggested earlier in this thread that the presence of a large number of non-combatants may have been one of the factors that led the inhabitants of Colchester to think that what was approaching was a peaceful tribal movement and nothing to be feared.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand. - by Renatus - 09-18-2016, 02:52 PM

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