Renatus
Why do i consider it last longer?, well thats because its a snapshot of the big picture, we know history from how it turned out, not how it unfolds without knowing the outcome, but big picture pacification of the iceni following the battle was unlikley to be brief in time.
Why are the Romans in Angelsey?, well thats because they are completing the isolating of the Ordovices tribe by cutting of Druidic influence and removing its agricultural aid to wales, to do so means road building, fleet building and an expected 4/5 months, Wroxeter is the base because its the Ordovices who are the problem to be solved, the Romans went the long way round.
To a Roman you were either dependents of Rome, subjecti, or recalcitrant , superbi to Rome, and if the they have a moral right, as given by Virgil for instance "to crush the proud who will not submit" and a religouse duty, again given by Virgil, to make you into the former by whatever means is required, including extinction at human or political level, Iceni were made extinct at a political level. Things went differently than planned for, they dont return to solving the Ordovices till the iceni have returned to subject status, to do that they had to be defeated militarily in the field, so the martial class of society knows it cant win in the field, time for this need not be long in time,but they dont know it cant win in low intensity warfare, so the Romans ravage the land to convince them thats not an option, and it also drives home to the general poulation that your a subject, you had better start acting like one, and any low level resitance is simply not going to be tolerated, these things take time, and create the natural human reaction of resentment ( perhaps lastinga generation) to those policies, so killing 00s of 000s in the field, starvation of the rest either makes you stay recalcitrant or become subjecti. How long that took we dont know know, but we are told the Iceni were willing to fight Rome earlier as well, so they acted like other celts whom resisted and took decades of military action, involving defeat in the field followed by low level ploice action and and extensive garrisoning for decades, to be convinced they were beaten. We know low entensity resistance lasts for a long time after the main military actions have been fought, people being people resist because of many reasons, banning your religion and cruxifiction for following it, having family killed or staved tends to produce long lasteing resentment. We know Rome was undertaking the human extinction of the tribe but chose to go another way, this prob ties in with Iceni looking to be a tribal host seeking to move away from Norfolk and away from Roman control, Rome tendended to be harsh on such tribal movements.
Building barges need not have been a time delay depending on how its planned and how many are involved, if 20k are at Menai then the entire Welsh frontier and some more is here so that to high a count, but if it is it will impose a longer time delay, if its a single Legion doing it all then yes a time delay occurs, as is if teh Legions calls for further forces, of course that might be cav, so again no delay, but if its aux then delay is agian likley.
Caeser had 2 legions make 600 barges in 12 weeks, so 25 a legion a week, to cross Menai straights in a barge is a 5 min operation rowing at 6 knots speed, with loading and unloading, so a 3 Cohort first wave can be re infoced in short order and you dont need enough barges for all in a single lift. Barges had c30t capacity so 30 men. So you need c50 barges, so, a single legion, which is all you need to build a road netthrough allied cortini land towrds chester, marches c20/30 miles ( 2 days) on existing roads, then builds its way to Chester in around 2 months, ( 60 days no rest days) crosses 60 odd miles ( 5 days) of welsh hills, it then starts to build barges, while any others needed for the assult can come over the now existing road net, they have c120 miles on roads and 60 over hills and tracks, if they march as fast as Caesers Legions they get there with 2 rest days in 12 days, so you have the barges built by the time they arrive.
Rome does not return to its original plan to solve the Ordovices till Agricola, 77/78 goes back to Angesey and then engulfs Ordovices.
Caesers acount of the Helvetti tells us how celts prepared for war, in advance of the fighting they pepared the logistics to conduct it, he also tells how sophisticated and adpative the celts behaved, which included scorched earth tactics against Caeser in gaul to deny him crops to live of, these were not unthinking brutes but organised, determined, and competent and we have no acounts of there version of events, only Roman.
Why do i consider it last longer?, well thats because its a snapshot of the big picture, we know history from how it turned out, not how it unfolds without knowing the outcome, but big picture pacification of the iceni following the battle was unlikley to be brief in time.
Why are the Romans in Angelsey?, well thats because they are completing the isolating of the Ordovices tribe by cutting of Druidic influence and removing its agricultural aid to wales, to do so means road building, fleet building and an expected 4/5 months, Wroxeter is the base because its the Ordovices who are the problem to be solved, the Romans went the long way round.
To a Roman you were either dependents of Rome, subjecti, or recalcitrant , superbi to Rome, and if the they have a moral right, as given by Virgil for instance "to crush the proud who will not submit" and a religouse duty, again given by Virgil, to make you into the former by whatever means is required, including extinction at human or political level, Iceni were made extinct at a political level. Things went differently than planned for, they dont return to solving the Ordovices till the iceni have returned to subject status, to do that they had to be defeated militarily in the field, so the martial class of society knows it cant win in the field, time for this need not be long in time,but they dont know it cant win in low intensity warfare, so the Romans ravage the land to convince them thats not an option, and it also drives home to the general poulation that your a subject, you had better start acting like one, and any low level resitance is simply not going to be tolerated, these things take time, and create the natural human reaction of resentment ( perhaps lastinga generation) to those policies, so killing 00s of 000s in the field, starvation of the rest either makes you stay recalcitrant or become subjecti. How long that took we dont know know, but we are told the Iceni were willing to fight Rome earlier as well, so they acted like other celts whom resisted and took decades of military action, involving defeat in the field followed by low level ploice action and and extensive garrisoning for decades, to be convinced they were beaten. We know low entensity resistance lasts for a long time after the main military actions have been fought, people being people resist because of many reasons, banning your religion and cruxifiction for following it, having family killed or staved tends to produce long lasteing resentment. We know Rome was undertaking the human extinction of the tribe but chose to go another way, this prob ties in with Iceni looking to be a tribal host seeking to move away from Norfolk and away from Roman control, Rome tendended to be harsh on such tribal movements.
Building barges need not have been a time delay depending on how its planned and how many are involved, if 20k are at Menai then the entire Welsh frontier and some more is here so that to high a count, but if it is it will impose a longer time delay, if its a single Legion doing it all then yes a time delay occurs, as is if teh Legions calls for further forces, of course that might be cav, so again no delay, but if its aux then delay is agian likley.
Caeser had 2 legions make 600 barges in 12 weeks, so 25 a legion a week, to cross Menai straights in a barge is a 5 min operation rowing at 6 knots speed, with loading and unloading, so a 3 Cohort first wave can be re infoced in short order and you dont need enough barges for all in a single lift. Barges had c30t capacity so 30 men. So you need c50 barges, so, a single legion, which is all you need to build a road netthrough allied cortini land towrds chester, marches c20/30 miles ( 2 days) on existing roads, then builds its way to Chester in around 2 months, ( 60 days no rest days) crosses 60 odd miles ( 5 days) of welsh hills, it then starts to build barges, while any others needed for the assult can come over the now existing road net, they have c120 miles on roads and 60 over hills and tracks, if they march as fast as Caesers Legions they get there with 2 rest days in 12 days, so you have the barges built by the time they arrive.
Rome does not return to its original plan to solve the Ordovices till Agricola, 77/78 goes back to Angesey and then engulfs Ordovices.
Caesers acount of the Helvetti tells us how celts prepared for war, in advance of the fighting they pepared the logistics to conduct it, he also tells how sophisticated and adpative the celts behaved, which included scorched earth tactics against Caeser in gaul to deny him crops to live of, these were not unthinking brutes but organised, determined, and competent and we have no acounts of there version of events, only Roman.
