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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
(09-06-2022, 08:56 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote:
(09-06-2022, 04:11 PM)Owein Walker Wrote: 70,000 dead... this figure looks fictitious at best.

Yes, in this case we can be pretty sure that Tacitus is talking out of his hat!

The population of London in AD60 was about 10,000 (Museum of London estimate); Colchester was about 15,000, St Albans about 5,000. There were probably fewer than 50,000 Roman civilian citizens in the whole province, most of them nowhere near the rebellion.


(09-06-2022, 04:11 PM)Owein Walker Wrote: To escape from Londinium by boat would risk sailing past the Trinovantes further down river, How long that would be a safe option for, I wouldn't like to guess.

Even today the Thames at London Bridge is about 230 metres across. Further downstream it widens to around 600 metres at Gravesend. In Roman times it would probably have been wider.

The maximum range of an English bow in the 12th Century was c.137 metres, and it's unlikely the native Britons of the 1st Century had anything more powerful. All a boat or ship would need to do is keep to the southern or Kent shore and they'd be well out of range of anything the natives of Essex could lob at them!

I don't think a bow will stop a boat if thats what you are thinking. I suggest the Trinovantes and Iceni would be able to sail a boat or two, or even convince someone to assist ,with the aid of a knife and some hostages.

It doesn't affect the battle site so I am satisfied with bow and arrow if it helps.

I am aware of the MOLA population estimate which is far more realistic, thank you.

(09-06-2022, 06:00 PM)Renatus Wrote:
(09-06-2022, 04:11 PM)Owein Walker Wrote: Later we are given a figure of I think 70,000 dead, from the 3 towns which seems high but if Verulamium is not included then this figure looks fictitious at best.

Tacitus says that the 70,000 dead were citizens and allies in the places mentioned, i.e., Colchester, London and Verulamium, so there is no reason to conclude that Verulamium may have been excluded.  Although he confines these casualties to the three towns, I would not be surprised if the figure includes anyone else who got in the way of the rebels.

(09-06-2022, 04:11 PM)Owein Walker Wrote: Tacitus then tells us SP met up with his reinforcements. This is written AFTER the destruction of Verulamium and Londinium, so now he has all of his troops and chooses to attack without further delay.

Tacitus does not say that Suetonius met up with his reinforcements.  He says that he has almost 10,000 men, made up of the 14th Legion, the veterans of the 20th and the nearest auxiliaries.  This, no doubt, represents some reinforcement of the troops that he took to London but is by no means 'all his troops'.  He is missing the 2nd Legion, the remainder of the 20th and what is left of the 9th, not to mention however many other auxiliaries that might have been available.  All these (with the possible exception of the 9th) were, on my analysis, on their way to him but could not arrive in time.  As I have said before, Tacitus makes a virtue of necessity in saying that Suetonius decided to put an end to delay and give battle.  He was forced into it by the numbers and proximity of the enemy and shortness of rations.  This is from Dio but is nevertheless highly plausible.  I don't know why you emphasise 'AFTER the destruction of Verulamium and Londinium'.  I don't think anyone is saying any different.

My bad,sorry.I should have written "Tacitus tells us SP met up with his AVAILABLE reinforcements".
The addition of 'AFTER',is purely to emphasise the order of things and that he was not being pursued down Watling Street ,across the river and west to somewhere else!
Ian
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand. - by Owein Walker - 09-06-2022, 09:56 PM

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