Metal plate beneath Linothorakes or Spolades

[Matthew Amt]

Below is the portion of the paper dealing with this.

Cool, thanks. Hmm, really sounds like they found a piece of metal and assumed it was armor. Mind you, I think it *could* be, too! It would be very neat to find something different like that. But it is SO different from every other piece of known armor of the time that I think caution is required. Seems a tad thick, too, but that could be corrosion or a thickened edge, or just bad measuring... Agreed that the curvature is not necessarily indicative, but without seeing signs of it being warped or twisted I'm just taking it at face value.

I addressed this above, but you are assuming that the T-Y was created to be cheaper. This may not be the case at all- you don't draw all your heroes on vases in the cheapest armor of the day. Better to go with Heroic nudity.

Eek, I hope I didn't imply that I assume the T-Y was cheaper, because I don't! And I don't assume that vase paintings are perfectly accurate, either. And nudity is fine with me if it's all right with you, big guy...

I disagree, this is a string of assumption plus one piece of possible data. That puts it one piece of possible data ahead of glued linen, and thus it must be considered.

Oh, I'm considering it! Just trying to be careful and not run too wild.

The problem is not in the conjecture, but in the reception. There was nothing wrong with Sekunda's or even Connolly's suggestion. You yourself inspired many a glued linothorax (I realize that is a rebuke at this point, sorry ).

Ha, good one! But this makes two points: First, that I can be convinced by EVIDENCE (and not by much else!). And second, all the more reason to be cautious with a new find! Remember, in its day, the glued linen theory fit the *evidence* that most of us had. This new piece *may* be armor, but I don't see any need to build it into a spolas or linothorax. To me, that goes beyond the evidence a mite too far. Sekunda's theory, on the other hand, flew in the face of everything we knew!

We just have to be clear that these are possibilities, not even probabilities. But if they influence an archaeologist to take a second look at metal fragments, they could provide more data in the future.

Oh, I'm with you 110 percent on that one. I weep to think of all the storerooms that are filled with wonderful bits and pieces of ancient armor, never looked at since they were dug up and dumped in a cardboard box. The truth is out there.... (But maybe not quite as far "out there" as some of us have gone, eh?)

If you could afford metal scales to be attached, in order to clearly add additional protection, then the personal probably would opt for a corselet with metal scales. If corners could be slightly cut by adding crude metal plates under the armor then they probably were added also.

Even now there is no evidence for "crude" plates--for all we know this new piece was polished and gilded! And from what I've seen and learned of ancient metalwork, going from a shaped piece of bronze sheet to a nice smooth bright one was merely the work of some sanding and polishing, easily done by an unskilled assistant. It was the kind of work that they simply didn't hesitate to do back then. I just find it too hard to believe that someone shelling out the last of his funds for armor would have just barely not enough to afford metal scales on it, so he'd invent a completely new style of armor that is absolutely unknown in the historical record, rather than go with a perfectly functional and common un-reinforced cuirass and have enough change for lunch.

Frankly, from the armor work I've done, chopping out a few scales from the box of little scraps sounds a lot easier than forming larger pieces into a cuirass shape and then getting the darn things to fit together properly, and THEN using IRON rivets to put them together!

This piece COULD be armor. But if it is, it's a substantial piece of bronze defensive equipment, so there's no way it was made as a cost-saving item. Metalwork like that costs money, so it was not made for someone scrimping a few obols. Nothing else makes any sense.

Khairete,

Matthew


PS: Probably part of the boiler for Heron's steam engine.