Metal plate beneath Linothorakes or Spolades

[PMBardunias]

I actually came to a somewhat wider conclusion in regards to the Y&T cuirass, that, in some (not all) cases, the entire front and back plates could have been made from wrought iron. Slightly insane, I know, ....

I would not call it insane, since we do have one example of such and I have analogized this type of construction to later Char-Aina armor, there is a whole thread on it someplace here. This is also what Sekunda wrote, though evidently he would have it covered with linen, but I don't agree that this was widespread. We basically know of three main types of armor for hoplites, Thorakes of metal, Thorakes of linen, and Spolades, a word which has leather at its roots. There is some evidence that the terms spolades and Thorakes could be used interchangably, which would indicate either they bear the same basic meaning, perhaps originally being distinct,then converging, or they were two different modes of construction, only one a T-Y (for which there is no evidence). In terms of artifacts we have bronze and iron cuirasses, one, perhaps more, iron corslet in the form of a T-Y, and bits of furniture from T-Y's. I have to assume that if these bronze bits were found in a layer of rust we would know it. We should actually be able to determine if the soil around such finds was decomposed organic material, but I have not seen any attempt so the original soils must not have been conserved.

Now if the early T-Y were made of iron like the Vergina cuirasse, then it is unlikely that this armor would have been referred to as a linothorax, but rather either simply as a thorax or an "Iron" thorax to differentiate it from the bronze type. I don't think a non-functional veneer of linen would spawn the name. Thus this armor would not be the "linothorax" we read of. It also would not be the spolades we read of for there is no leather implied. The only reason to propose it was covered with linen was to make it conform to the name "linothorax", so the circular reasoning does not hold water to me. So if T-Ys were of iron, then we have no images of Linothorakes or spolades- which I find unlikely.

Thus the original form of the T-Y, if what we see on vases actually corresponds to either linothorakes or spolades, would have been of organic construction. The Vergina cuirasse either a simple mock up of a T-Y done in iron, or a later variant for which we cannot guage the breadth of use. This is distinct from the construction I suggested on this thread because here the armor is of organic construction. A "coat of plates" is first a "coat" and second concealing "plates". So presumably to a greek this would be a 'linothorax' or spolades just like T-Y with scales.

but it strikes me as more logical than supposing they were made from leather (which isn't great armour) or from linen (again, relatively light armour). Armour tends to become heavier and more resilient as technology advances, excluding the mass production of the matchlock musket and possibly the fall of the Roman Empire. So it strikes me as odd that the Greeks would trade heavier armour for lighter amongst even their heaviest troops.

The problem with this is that there are countless examples of T-Ys with scales. Unless we assume that scales were put on over iron plate, which is rediculous, then even under your scheme armor would have 'lightened" from plate to scale.

Yes Matt,I know I opened up this can of worms...Mia culpa.