08-28-2010, 11:39 PM
Paul B. wrote:
I am not as sure as Paul B. that Atalanta is shown in a Tube-and-Yoke corselet, on the Francois vase, which is usually dated "mid-sixth century BC", and sometimes as early as '570-560 BC', but I have not seen it dated quite so early as 575. The only feature of a T-and-Y that is visible are the 'epotides'/shoulder-pieces, which themselves are not of the usual T-and-Y form ( incidently, the Perseus description interprets these as a 'quiver'!). The trunk part seems to be looser than a T-and-Y, and extends only to the midriff/diaphragm. As Paul suggests, the lower trunk appears to be tightly girdled by a broad belt or belts, and crucially, there are no pteryges. I would suggest that since this is a hunting scene, what we are seeing is possibly an ancestor to the classic T-and-Y, perhaps in the form of a hunting jerkin. We might term this earliest form a proto-Tube-and-Yoke - an ancestor of the true Tube-and-Yoke corselet.
Alcaeus flourished in the last quarter of the 7C BC. He was probably born some time before 630 BC and some of his work can be dated to 615-600 BC. The latest possible date referred to in surviving fragments of his work is 590-587 BC ( a reference to his brother, who may have served as a mercenary of Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in his Jewish War).
That means his work is something like 20-50 years before the Francois vase - not sufficiently proximate in my view to infer that the 'proto Tube-and-Yoke' on the Francois vase is "probably" linen, or that this "new" type of armour (the actual later T-and-Y) was "probably" linen......
The information we have is simply too tenuous to link up.....
Quote:The earliest image I have been able to find for a T-Y is on the Francois Krater. The scene is the Kalydonian boar hunt and the armor is worn by Atalanta (and perhaps the man behind her). This dates to about 575 BC, which to me puts it within sufficient proximity to Alcaeus's reference to a "corslet of new linen" to make the T-Y form possible, if not probable.
I am not as sure as Paul B. that Atalanta is shown in a Tube-and-Yoke corselet, on the Francois vase, which is usually dated "mid-sixth century BC", and sometimes as early as '570-560 BC', but I have not seen it dated quite so early as 575. The only feature of a T-and-Y that is visible are the 'epotides'/shoulder-pieces, which themselves are not of the usual T-and-Y form ( incidently, the Perseus description interprets these as a 'quiver'!). The trunk part seems to be looser than a T-and-Y, and extends only to the midriff/diaphragm. As Paul suggests, the lower trunk appears to be tightly girdled by a broad belt or belts, and crucially, there are no pteryges. I would suggest that since this is a hunting scene, what we are seeing is possibly an ancestor to the classic T-and-Y, perhaps in the form of a hunting jerkin. We might term this earliest form a proto-Tube-and-Yoke - an ancestor of the true Tube-and-Yoke corselet.
Alcaeus flourished in the last quarter of the 7C BC. He was probably born some time before 630 BC and some of his work can be dated to 615-600 BC. The latest possible date referred to in surviving fragments of his work is 590-587 BC ( a reference to his brother, who may have served as a mercenary of Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon in his Jewish War).
That means his work is something like 20-50 years before the Francois vase - not sufficiently proximate in my view to infer that the 'proto Tube-and-Yoke' on the Francois vase is "probably" linen, or that this "new" type of armour (the actual later T-and-Y) was "probably" linen......
The information we have is simply too tenuous to link up.....
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
