Proper Crest for Legionary on Aquincum Helmet

[Antoninus05]

What is the proper crest for the common legionary used on the Aquincum helmet, how was it attached and who sells them? Thanks, Antoninus

[M.VAL.BRUTUS]

This is something I believe is open to interpretation.

I know there are vendors out there who sell a crest box support that was made for this helmet, but I'm not sure if this is something that someone invented in response to the helmet's needs or if it was based on evidence from an actual find.

You can find that here:

https://www.armamentaria.com/store/index...cts_id=274

But, I actually made a plume similar to that of a coolus style helmet for mine, back when I had one. I have since sold it and now wear an Italic D. But the plume worked well.

For me the fear I had with a crest box support on the Gallic Aquincum was it's height. You already have the post on top of the helmet, then you add the support, and then the crest box itself. And that could turn into a mighty tall sail... If you find yourself in windy conditions...

[Matthew Amt]

You can either just do this:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/crest5.jpg

with a crest block as long as you like, or just fold a strip of metal into a T-shaped tab and nail it to the bottom of the block. Simple.

Matthew

[TFRufio]

The proper crest would be a horsehair crest, much like that of the Montifortino Crest. There were no horsehair crests like the type found on many Gallic types.(i.e., mounted on a wooden crest block). That type of crest would only allow the hair to hang like a ponytail.

[Matthew Amt]

Hi, Jeff! Not certain I'm following you, here. The crest knob on the Acquincum helmet has a slot front-to-back, not the vertical hole seen on Montefortino knobs. So it could have accepted a tab on the bottom of a wood block. Plus it has an attachment ring at the front, between the eyebrows, and presumably one at the back, too, which would indicate securing points for a half-circle crest block.

Good to see you're still around! Vale,

Matthew

[Antoninus05]

Hi Matthew, that is actually how my Aquincum is made, with small brass loops both front and back,...Two questions:

1. How do you secure the front and back of the block to the brass loops on the helmet?

2. How does one pick a color of horsehair for a common legionary?

Thanks, Mike

[Matthew Amt]

1. How do you secure the front and back of the block to the brass loops on the helmet?

Most folks use similar rings or hooks attached to the underside of the crest block at each end, for strings or ties.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/crest2.jpg
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/crests.html

2. How does one pick a color of horsehair for a common legionary?

There are color depictions of red crests and white ones, and one reference to yellow. That's all we got! We don't know if color was determined by rank, by unit, or personal choice, though there is one passage in Vegetius that says the color of the tunic, shield, and crest were all determined by unit.

Matthew

[Paullus Scipio]

For earlier times, the iconography of Italy generally shows black, white, and reddish-brown horsehair crests - obviously natural horsehair. A fairly bright, dyed red also seems to have been popular. One frieze shows an Italian cavalryman in alternate black/white/red segments of a standing horsehair crest. Polybius refers to Romans wearing three crimson or black feathers in his famous detailed decription of legionaries around 200 BC (VI.23)

For Imperial times, Arrian in his "Hippika Gymnasika"(34) says, referring to the cavalry sports displays:
"The horsemen enter fully armed, and those of distinguished station or superior in horsemanship wear gilded helmets of iron or bronze, to draw to themselves the gaze of the spectators. Unlike the helmets made for active service, these do not cover the head and cheeks only, but are made to fit all round the faces of the riders with an aperture for the eyes, so as to give protection to the eyes without interfering with vision. From the helmets hang yellow plumes."

Later, Vegetius comments on crests etc too, but I'm afraid Matthew's memory is playing him a little false.On the subject of shields, what Vegetius actually says is; "Lest the soldiers in the confusion of battle should be separated from their comrades, every cohort had its shields painted in a manner peculiar to itself. The name of the each soldier was also written on his shield, together with the number of the cohort and century to which he belonged." He doesn't actually say each cohort had its own colour, for it is possible he means each cohort had a unique design ( different Praetorian cohorts seem to have had had different designs), though depictions on columns etc give the impression that different Legions rather than cohorts had different designs ( from the number of designs - too few, probably, if each cohort was different - but nothing is really known here).
Vegetius doesn't comment at all on tunic colour, or crest colours, saying only this:
"Besides, the centurions, now called centenarii were distinguished by different crests on their helmets, to be more easily known by the soldiers of their respective centuries."
and a little later...
"But the centurions had complete cuirasses, shields and helmets of iron the crest of which, placed transversely thereon, were ornamented with silver that they might be more easily distinguished by their respective soldiers."

[Matthew Amt]

Whoops, sorry, I must be mis-remembering! Huh, so where did I pick up that factoid, I wonder? Okay, so we know less than I thought we did, ha!

Thanks, Paul!

Matthew

[Crispvs]

I wouldn't worry too much about the height of your crest support. The vertical shank of my crest support is just on two and a half inches long, which does make my crest rise rather high, but I do not find any problem with this.

Crispvs

[M.VAL.BRUTUS]

The issue of height I was refering to is particular to the Gallic I Aquincum helmet.

The issue being the two inch post on top of the helmet, added to the 2 1/2 inch support, plus the height of the crest box itself (if the person doesindeed have a crest box stlye of crest), all of this plus the length of the horse hair would make for a rather tall crest.

Now of course by using Matt's idea of fitteing the crest directly onto the helmet post, this would reduce the height if the crest support system by something like three inches.

That was the only point of height I was trying to make.

[Crispvs]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that you added a further crest support to the anther type support which appears to have been standard on Imperial Gallic type 'I' helmets. I was merely meaning that if a two and a half inch crest stand is not a problem then the one and a half to two inch crest support on your helmet should not cause you any trouble either. Sorry for any confusion caused.

Crispvs

[Gaius Colletti]

just fold a strip of metal into a T-shaped tab and nail it to the bottom of the block. Simple.

Matt do you have any suggestions for where to find a piece of metal for this job? I would be interested in making one myself (paying $18 for the crest holder alone, on the web is a little steep)

[Crispvs]

You should be able to get small sheets and strips of brass at hardware and hobby shops. The ones I buy in shops over here are manufactured in America so it should be easy enough to track some down. You will probably want to get a pair of decent tin snips as well.

Crispvs

[FREDDY QUERALES]

Buenas Noches estoy haciendo una prueba