I already have a goose feather crest and a horse hair crest for my centurio helmets.
Since I will be getting another helmet, I was thinking to use ostrich feathers for the transverse crest. I know that up to date, the feathers of this bird appear for the praetorian guard or for certain officers that appear to be of hight status.
What is the opinion amongst you about using ostrich feathers for a centurio crest. Outside the one stela where feathers are shown (not ostrich), they do not really appear to be as popular as the horse hair. Nontheless, I would like to try an alternative if plausible.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)
well, I would say we simply don't know. We've multiple sources for horsehair, one for feathers and no one as you are searching, as far as I know. So I think you perfectly put all the evidence to use in your choose yourself.
________________________________________ Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma CORBVLO and Fectio ALA I BATAVORUM
I know of the stela and have read a mention here on RAT for written sources for horse hair. Of course there is that one stela for feathers. I am not aware of the written sources for feather. To this end I have already used the evidence. However, with respect to feathers, are the types used mentioned in the sources? Otherwise, any feathers could be used because the source is non specific.
BTW, would you happen to have the sources you are referring to?
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)
Quote:well, I would say we simply don't know. We've multiple sources for horsehair, one for feathers and no one as you are searching, as far as I know.
Don't forget the peacock feathers of some Late Roman helmets.
Robert Vermaat MODERATOR FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Interesting thought Robert. Do you suppose their use plausible for the 1st C AD? What sort of peacock feathers? The really bright colored ones with the "eye" in the feather.
That would really be out of this world if I could use them for a centurio crest.
I think that with respect to Roman equipment, we all know it changed over time. However, feathers are not equipment per se. They are more decorative. Then again, styles change therefore, something from the later period may not have been used earlier?
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)
Good point David. I had not thought of that. When I saw them in a picture on a website for sale, they appreard to be rather small. I know that those feathers are really tall but I figured that the place selling them would cut them down to various lengths. Oh well, it's a good tip for when I make a feather purchase.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)
Quote:Interesting thought Robert. Do you suppose their use plausible for the 1st C AD? What sort of peacock feathers? The really bright colored ones with the "eye" in the feather.
I have only evidence for a Late Roman use on the helemt of an emperor. A 1st-c. use for a centurio might therefore be something of a streched interpretation. :wink:
Robert Vermaat MODERATOR FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
I don't think that ostrich feathers would have been used for a Centurians crest, the only style we see from the Praetorians appear to be fore and aft type crests.
Then the others used might well be what we are given to believe from Arrian where he explains that Cavalry in the Hippica Gymnasia wore Yellow ones much like the Ostrich I have used on the Helmet I made that is shown in my Avatar.
Thank you all for the replies. I guess that keeping it "simple" and go with the goose feathers is a better idea.
Speaking of goose feathers, are they always completely white? The searches I have done all turn up feathers that are vaired in color. Attached are the pics of the ones I found. I am sure there are natural white but most are bleached. I think that instead of pure white which are mostly used by reenactors, the different colors could be welcome.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)
It depends on the species of goose. Some are white, whilst others, such as the Canada Goose, are not.
Incidentally, looking at M. Petronius Classicus' stele, I am not convinced that goose feathers are what is being portrayed, as they do not seem to be anything like long enough to be goose feathers. Now I know that Roman funerary sculpture is rarely proportionally accurate, but longer feathers could have been depicted if the sculptor had wished and would not have taken very much longer to do.
I am making a feather crest myself at the moment but decided instead to try duck feathers (having checked first to make sure that Mallard ducks were probably in Europe in Roman times), which are closer in length to the length of the horsehair in my existing crest. I will put a picture up of it once I finish it.
Note that I am not trying to say the Petronius Classicus' crest shows duck feathers, because I don't think it does. I am just trying to say that they might well be feathers from a different type of bird.
Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
Quote:Good point David. I had not thought of that. When I saw them in a picture on a website for sale, they appreard to be rather small. I know that those feathers are really tall but I figured that the place selling them would cut them down to various lengths. Oh well, it's a good tip for when I make a feather purchase.
Just so long as you don't end up like the guys at the start of this: :grin:
OMG, are those supposed to be ostrich feathers? It looks as if someone put the whole bird onto the helmets.
Crispus, I was thinking of goose feathers as just one choice of bird. It appears that for the time being the other birds that I mentioned are not plausible As far as the length is concerned, you could use goose feathers and cut them down. That is how my first crest was made.
I wanted to use a different color or type of feather instead of the usual white of red. I am going to see what sort of goose is generally found in Europe with respect to feather color.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)
Based on what Polybius said about purple and black feathers, I think your crest is very nice. Would you be able to attach a pic where the helmet is at eye-level.
It appears that duck feathers are an excellent alternative.
I looked up the type of goose in europe and it turns out that with respect to the feathers that would be used for a crest (on the wings) the main color is a dark brown/gray color with a white spine and the edges of the feather have a white border. This type of goose is very popular in Germany, England, and the Mediterranian. This makes also a good alternative for color.
The article mentions that this type of goose came down to the modern world from the old world and that it has not changed very much. So Crispus, here you have a bird that could have been used in the Roman period.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)
