"Troy" is gonna suck!

[Anonymous]

WOW!!<br>
Who made that Dendra reconstruction?<br>
Do you have more pictures?<br>
And do you think that, as a group, we'd have enough clout to declare a Pius and Justus Bellum on those Hollywood persons?<br>
The guy who perpetrated that Arthur movie should be thrown ad bestias.<br>
Sheeeesh...<br>
As for young, cute, Leonardo... Well the Iliad and the Odyssey are very powerful stories. So powerful in fact that they are still with us three thousand and two hundred years after the facts. Give or take a few.<br>
I am sure neither young, cute, Leonardo, nor anybody else, will be able to ruin it...<br>
But just in case, a little prayer may help.<br>
From the Iliad..<br>
<br>
"Hear me, O silver-bowed one, thou who guardest Chrysa and holy Cilla,<br>
Who rulest with might over Tenedos.<br>
O Smintheos, if I ever put a roof upon a temple that was pleasing to you,<br>
Or if I ever burned for you the fat thighs of bulls or goats, Then accomplish this wish for me:<br>
Let the Danaeans pay for my tears with your arrows."<br>
<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://localhost:1094/Homesteads/_1750094854/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 8/1/03 11:03 am<br></i>

[Robert Vermaat]

Please, no ,NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (anguished scream).. <br>
<br>
I had such hopes for the first seemingly accurate Arthurian movie...<br>
And what is this? Incorrect Roman vs. fantasy saxons?? with a bad touch of Bravehart?<br>
<img src="http://www.thezreview.co.uk/images/kinga9.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
<br>
Ochone, ochone.... Nevertheless, this movie will be about Lucius Artorius Castus, so it's a Roman movie after all:<br>
Lucius Artorius Castus, commander of a detachment of Sarmatian conscripts stationed in Britain, led his troops to Gaul to quell a rebellion. This is the first appearance of the name, Artorius, in history and some believe that this Roman military man is the original, or basis, for the Arthurian legend. The theory says that Castus' exploits in Gaul, at the head of a contingent of mounted troops, are the basis for later, similar traditions about "King Arthur," and, further, that the name "Artorius" became a title, or honorific, which was ascribed to a famous warrior in the fifth century.<br>
[url=http://www.murphsplace.com/owen/arthur/history.html" target="top]Link at:[/url] http://www.murphsplace.com/owen/arthur/history.html
<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert<br>
<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 7/31/03 1:42 pm<br></i>

[Nathan Ross]

Glad to see that the King Arthur film has that Saracenic-looking dude with the little beard and the two swords - he seems to have got around just about everywhere in the 'dark ages'. Clever guy! And they seem to have enlisted a few of those 'centurions' that hang about the Colosseum in Rome posing for tourist snaps too. About time somebody made them work for a living.<br>
<br>
These aspects alone convince me that it will be a thoroughly-researched and utterly compelling depiction of life in 5th/6th century Britain. Hmmm yes. <p></p><i></i>

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

the horror, the horror<br>
<br>
<br>
Indeed, this will be finally a good recheared, authentic looking historical movie. <br>
<br>
Makes you wonder IF they director really bothered a little researche about the subject at hand or just enlisted anybody who had "a sword and a sandle".<br>
<br>
Dir.: so tell me and what do you do?<br>
Actor: well, i have a sword which i can use.<br>
Dir.: Wow, your hired!<br>
<br>
<br>
*sigh*, rather sad in some way... <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Tja,<br>
<br>
They got the saracene guy from that nice BBC Robin Hood series then...<br>
<br>
Lucretius,<br>
<br>
The Dendra pic comes from Matthew Amt's site on Greek reenactment. He got it posted from the maker, An english guy I think. There is only one pic of it there. Sorry, Check out with Matt for more details?<br>
<br>
Ursinius <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

"Why wouldn't want the public see authentic stuff?"<br>
<br>
They don't want to see it, IF it has a look that doesn't fit to our modern taste (that's why the armor in Gladiator looked so dark - it fits better to the design of other action movies like Terminator, Matrix, Alien, etc. than the real stuff). The reconstructed armor above is surely nothing, an average audience would like to see in the cinema. Besides that, they are already used to some errors, because Hollywood has created them (like rowers in Roman warships with chains at their feet, pseudo-Imperial helmets from the Rome's beginning to its end, etc.) So authentic elements would maybe even confuse the audience, so that authentic late-Roman equipment would be even considered as "false", because the movie-goers aren't used to it. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Once I asked a cowboy in Texas: on those Old West pictures, you guys wear your pants inside your boots, nowadays you wear them outside. When did that fashion change?"<br>
-"Since we saw John Wayne wearing them so in the movies.."<br>
I am NOT making this up. It is a true anecdote. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://localhost:1094/Homesteads/_1750094854/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 8/2/03 2:26 pm<br></i>

[Octavianvs]

I think also that sometimes movie makers go for a trend.... right now Lord of the ring is big , its fantasy, they ( movie prodicers ) figure hey were here to tell a story these other movies out now arte fantasy and require no real research so long as it looks good. well all we need to do is portray what we feel the audience will recognise as ( greek roman persian trojan etc.. ) They want to get movies out. thats how they get paid. Theres many excellent stories there from history ( just look they keep redoing them over and over again, they just did a Helen of troy on i think it was TNT ) . anyway hollywood has always made changes in costume to suit thier belief that an audience will react better to such and such. look at the latest 4 fethers where they were in uniforms that went out over 20yrs prior to the event. in patriot EVERY brit had a red coat artillery cavalry when arty should have been in blue with red facings and cav should have had green with red facings. but no this will confuse the audience. was gladiator really authentic not on the whole, or the movie in which it was remade from ( fall o f the roman empire ) but it did have an accurate helmet in it. so all we can do is hop eto help and influence and TRY vto get it right but it never will in its entirety bee 100% accurate. All we can hope is for the exposure and to set up lobby displays/promos and do what we do with the public. I think if we get enough expsoure then some movie makers may try to get it better than whats currently out there. Look how far WWII has come from really crappy equipmment/ uniforms etc to the likes of saving Pvt Ryan Band o' Brothers and Windtalkers. much better costuming as of late. it can be done to a better degree i think- john <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Argghh, you've mentioned 'saving Private Ryan'!<br>
At Hollywood they can make fake spaceships fly convincingly, but they seem uncapable of replicating a decent German tank for close-up takes!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Octavianvs]

ok ok first off I suffering from severe sleep deprivation due to pain compounded by the pain killing narcotics I was a bit well fuzzed to say the least.. anyway got me bout 3 hrs sleep and doin better today soooo.... Yes the crappy flappy tank in close up not so good. BUT they did have a REAL KettenKrad and halfway decent uniforms and gear. BUT all in all its Hollyweird witht he emphasis on WIERD. theres no sence to how or why the come up with what they do. ok here goes in the A&E movie about G. Washington at the battle of trenton they were showing cannon firing at troops the shells exploded, in patriot they showed how CANNON shot really was. and that is that it basically was human bowlingcannon shot didnt explode it flew then hit the gfround and bounced along till its energy expended. in gladiator the roman napalm I seriously doubt existed in such aplication as shown and while this cvan definitly could lead to a whole new topic I have never seen any type of any evidence to say that the army used napalm. now from what I remeber about the TV miniseries MASADA was pretty decent as far aas operation ( i think someone was shooting rotting animals as bio warfare )<br>
anyway I would say the people on this list could do a better job on authenticity than hollywood. plus the access we have to getting things right if were not sure or dont know is there plus we care enough to get it right. ok like gladiator in the original they cast chris plummer in the part of commodus his appearance was closer than phoenix's appearance as his hair and eyes were actually light coloured. if theres a way we can get on as advisors in a movie or get on as extras ( especially with our kit, our kit alone will make peopel jealous) anyway its for us to try either by trying to let them see the right way or by doing the theatres and setting up displays - john <p></p><i></i>

[Octavianvs]

hey thta last post makes me look mad. i aint sorry dont take it the wrong way. the typed words aint looking like excatly the intention I am trying to make about hollywood and the point you make about the tank is exactly one of those things, again thanks - john <p></p><i></i>

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

well, at least the Germans in "saving private ryan" were driving in tanks that looked like a German tank (from a distance). In most other movies you see them having US tanks or other ones (but mostly M48´s).<br>
<br>
so in light of that it was a some what better job. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Well, actually I think this tank in Saving Private Ryan was pretty decent, as compared to the usual M-48 or even M-60 with black crosses painted on the turret.<br>
It was a soviet tank. Dan thinks it's a T-54/55. I still think it was a T-34. I've seen T-54/55 in Lebanon from up close, too close sometimes, and they didn't have that type of wheels.<br>
But the box-like hull of the Tiger was very well reproduced.<br>
But to go back to young, cute Leonardo there, I am extremely disappointed by Wolfgang Petersen, whose "Das Boote" is ampongst the ten best war movies ever made.<br>
I guess everybody must make a living and sign contracts that aren't always desired, especially in the movie industry....<br>
But well, Ridley Scott's first movie, The Duellists, was one of the most, if not the most historically accurate movie I saw, besides the fact that it was a unforgettable pleasure for the eyes.<br>
And then, see what happens..<br>
It's not only Gladiator, it's also Thelma and Louise, and Private Benjamin...<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Oh yes, I forgot the Kettenkrad!<br>
Anyway, in spite of their attempt to disguise the unidentifyed tank as a Tiger, the distance needed to accomplish the trick was too long (and better without wearing my glasses !)<br>
All in all, from a 'Hollywood' point of view, a noticeable progress!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

'The Duellists' is really a cool historic film on the Napoleonic epoch. I'm not an expert in that time but things looked really OK and the story was witty. If only a small part of that interest would have survived in Ridley Scott for 'Gladiator'!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>