Teaser trailer for Troy

[Anonymous]

Something for you guys to pick apart. I think it looks damn cool though.<br>
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www.troymovie.com<br>
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Click on "trailer" to watch it. <p></p><i></i>

[FlaviusCrispus]

Hey, I think it looks bitchin' too.<br>
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We're talking about a fantasy here, so deriding the "accuracy" of the costumes and armor would be like picking apart "Lord of the Rings" on that basis.<br>
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It would have been cool to have put everybody in proper Mycenaean-Minoan garb (particularly the ladies, with bared breasts and all! ), but the look they've achieved here strikes my eye as plausibly "heroic age" Greek. I particularly liked the shot of the warriors forming a quasi-testudo.<br>
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I look forward to this one!<br>
<br>
T. Flavius Crispus<br>
Legio VI Victrix Pia Fidelis<br>
California, USA <p></p><i></i>

[John Maddox Roberts]

Loved that bit about the "massive tribes of Greece." Were they all fat or something? And "King Prium." The ships look good, and they have those wierdly-tapering Cretan columns. But some of the columns look fluted. Of course, Hollywood has to concentrate on the Paris-Helen love story, which was just an embarrass. I'd like to see a movie that treated being in love the way the ancients saw it - as an illness. <p></p><i></i>

[Robert Vermaat]

Woah, why should they get away with it so easily? I mean, you can call it a fantasy and pretend it's just a fairy-tale like LOTR, but that's of course not the case.<br>
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Why should we not pick it apart? I want to pick it apart (slight whining voice)..<br>
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Flavius, where do you get the idea that all Minoan ladies walked around bare-breasted (you rogue), and even the Mycenean ladies!<br>
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John, did Homer not write about black ships? instead, they made all, yes all the armour and clothes black? Must've been quite depressing back then, no color AT ALL? What is it with this 'modern' movie-makers, to allow no color in their movies.. At least the Alexander one seems to be different in that aspect.<br>
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Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I was pleasantly surprised by that publicity shot of Colin Ferrel from Alexander. They actually used ancient sources for the helmet and tunic -- the tunic had the exact same design as the mosaic from Pompeii. Really cool.<br>
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I wonder if it's the actual directors and producers and what not that tell the art department to just make stuff up, or if the art department makes stuff up on their own because they want to be creative and not just copy the exact designs that are already a matter of record. I'd be interested to know the answer to that. <p></p><i></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

The ships look good? Eh? Triremes in 1200 BC, that's about 600 years too early, apart from the fact that they seem not to need 100s of rowers. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

That looks like a Trireme was my first thought too.<br>
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I took an interest in the project to reconstruct the [url=http://www-atm.physics.ox.ac.uk/rowing/trireme/" target="top]Trireme[/url] some years ago.<br>
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The ships in the clip were certainly big, but earlier warships such as the penteconter might have been about the same size. The upper limit for such ancient ships was about 35m regardless of the number of oarsmen.<br>
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But at that period even a ram was out, ships of that period were all essentially transports. The ram was only introduced about 600 BC if I remember rightly.<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[John Maddox Roberts]

I said they looked good, not that they looked accurate. Homer is pretty vague in describing the ships, as in many other things. They are described as "black," probably from pitch coating. Also as "hollow." As opposed to solid ships, I suppose. They were light, since they were dragged up on the beach. I guess the trireme form just says "ancient Greece" to most people. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Well, I must admit that the trailer made me feel a lot better than that photo of Brad P. and his "dress" tunic. I have the feeling some CGI work is still being added for better visuals. The ships look loosely modeled on Peter Connolly's renditions in his "Legend of Odysseus;" the best reconstruction illustrations to my knowledge. As to the dark armor, beside the "Warrior Vase," boar's tusk helmet paintings and a few finds like the Dendra Panoply, we have very little from the ca. 1250 BCE date to go on.<br>
Since most of the existing Greek, Etruscan, Roman depictions of things Iliadic show a more Classical period hoplite armor and arms, my feeling is that anything that approximates that is the way Alexander or Cæsar might have envisioned Homer when they read it. Personally, I'm fine with that. If that's the way the ancients envisioned it, thenwhy not us as well. The cast also looks promising. I was basically disappointed with last summer's miniseries "Helen of Troy" (see that thread if you want) but this one looks very OK so far. While I cannot hope for anything as detailed as the late Trojan alliance with the Amazons, or Memnon's battle, or Ajax's madness, if this is successful, we might have some better "ancient" films than in the past.<br>
<br>
Wade Heaton<br>
Lucius Cornelius Libo<br>
[email protected] <br>
www.togaman.com <p></p><i></i>

[FlaviusCrispus]

Yeah, What he (Togaman) said!<br>
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As for bare-breasted Minoans, I figured it was fairly common knowledge that most forms of Minoan art depict ladies in big, flouncy dresses that leave the bosom exposed (and rather prominantly upthrust and cantalevered, even).<br>
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Mycenaeans seemed to take most of their fashion cues from the Minoans. I distinctly remember a PBS miniseries documentary by a British archaeology author whose name escapes me right now entitled, "In Search of the Trojan War" or some such. The opening title sequence pans slowly past an actress dressed up as a Mycenaean lady (Helen of Troy, maybe) in just such Minoan garb. Va va va voom! I remember waiting for that sequence to roll around with every episode... but then, I've always been a "top" man, if you catch my drift.<br>
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T. Flavius Crispus<br>
Leg VI VIctrix Pia Fidelis<br>
California, USA<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Now, Flavius, all kidding aside. Box office is everything. Reconstructing Minoan costume is a different market and a different rating. That's planned for my coming attraction "Roma multa de nocta" OK, so they're not Roman, like the market for that show will care.<br>
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Even though historical re-enactors like ourselves scoff at "fantacists" and Rennfaires, I might suggest that you, Flavius, or any of us who enjoy the evolutionary fruits of our mammalian ancestry, might enjoy what connects those Minoan ladies with Rennaissance fashion. Bodices. Let me say again, bodices. Victoria's Secret can't even come close. I even have a Renny character costume just so I can enjoy the best show of the year, which by the way is happening nearby even now. Bye, boys! Gotta go see if some poor wench needs help with her lacing.<br>
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WH <p></p><i></i>

[Robert Vermaat]

The guy whose name you forgot is Michael Wood. Good series, that was.<br>
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As for Mycenaean ladies' fashion, I've not seen much of that 'Minoan' fashion you mention. There are quite some images of women and their dresses known, from pottery and mural art, etc. Alas, nothing much on bare chests!<br>
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Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>

[FlaviusCrispus]

Yeah, Michael Wood! That's the guy!<br>
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Try this link...<br>
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www.artfromgreece.com/stories/mf07.html<br>
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This one's kind of cute, though it's a modern model of what "Helen of Troy" might have looked like...<br>
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www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/nikol...helen.html<br>
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This link shows the famous "snake goddess" figurine, with a full, exposed bosom; also, it notes that Mycenaean costume was essentially the same as Minoan.<br>
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www.annaswebart.com/cultu...index.html<br>
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Have fun!<br>
<br>
T. Flavius Crispus<br>
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<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flaviuscrispus@romanarmytalk>FlaviusCrispus</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/legiovi/vwp?.dir=/Flavius+photo&.src=gr&.dnm=flavhead2.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 11/14/03 3:42 am<br></i>

[Anonymous]

...and weighed the evidence. I'd say dresses like those would be completely justified dramatically. Oh yes.<br>
<br>
Conn <p></p><i></i>

[John Maddox Roberts]

I believe that it is the solemnly-agreed consensus of scholars and academics everywhere, that any excuse to show lots of bare boobs is a good one. <p></p><i></i>