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09-17-2002, 07:33 PM

Nighthawk, 
On the reply you made to my post on Dando-Collins book yo mentioned you sat through an explanation by Peter Connolly where he stated the reasons he did not believe the pilum head was malleable. Could you share with us his views? 
thanks

Caius Fabius · 09-17-2002, 07:57 PM

well, I am not "Come in Nighthawk: but I have some of Peter Connolly's lectures on video tape, including several minutes and a couple of slides on his views on pila, their use, and misunderstandings by people reading the "classics". 
 
I am waiting to hear back from Peter Connolly as to whether he will allow us to publish some of his articles here, and also whether he will allow me to send copies of his lectures to various interested persons. 
 
 
"Just before class started, I looked in the big book where all the world's history is written, and it said...." Neil J. Hackett, PhD ancient history, professor OSU, 1987

Caius Fabius · 09-18-2002, 04:18 PM

The head of most pila is a four-sided armor piercing point, designed to penetrate and is hardened, both by the hammer and quenching. The head is designed to penetrate. There are several different types of pila designs, from Pre-Marian times on to 3rd century AD. 
 
Peter Connolly basically said, (not a direct quote) that the pila was not really designed to bend along the metal shaft, it just happened. The older pila, with the one or two pins would strike a hard object or the ground and the pins would shatter the wood or the pins and the pila was unusable for a return throw. The Romans try to fix this, (archaeological record) by making a collar, but it doesn't really work. 
The next reference to pila bending is from Caesar, when several shields are pinned by a pilum that bends and causes the shields to be discarded, (battle with Helvetii). Again, the archaeological record shows some bent pila, and some bent swords. Caesar mentions the unusual often in his writings. 
The archaeology shows that the Romans started making different styles of pilum including the socketed pilum and the sharp tang pilum. As you go later along the archaeological record, including Kalkreise (AD 9) we find the socketed pilum, and some pila with collars. 
By the time of Vespasian and later, the sharp tanged pilum, with a collar is in use. The tang is driven into the wooden shaft, and the collar prevents splitting on impact. (Examples at Saalburg fort and Mainz museum). 
Peter Connolly basically says that the pilum is designed to pierce armor, (hence the point). If a shield gets in the way, the pilum pierces that as well, and the man behind it, if the thrower is lucky. The armorer wasn't really worried about the metal shaft bending or not, but if it did, so much the better. Again, the archaeological record shows both bent and unbent pila, as well as bent and unbent swords. 
The pilum used for mid first century and further is usually, (again according to archaeology), the socketed or sharp tanged version, because they were better and didn't split the wooden shaft on impact. 
 
That is the very condensed version of his remarks during the Roman Army Tour MMII. 
 
 
 
"Just before class started, I looked in the big book where all the world's history is written, and it said...." Neil J. Hackett, PhD ancient history, professor OSU, 1987

09-18-2002, 05:11 PM

thanks for the explanation. Did Connolly construct and compare malleable and unmalleable pilum heads then test them? 
 
Is it possible to check the temper of archaeological finds of pila or does the erosion over time eradicate the differences?

Caius Fabius · 09-18-2002, 07:32 PM

I probably don't really understand your term "pilum head". To me the head is the tip, and if you hammer the tip in making the point, it becomes hardened just because in the process you compact the metal's structure. I suspect that the only way you could have a "malleable" head would be to cast it from something, maybe giving a soft nose, like certain lead filled bullets. We know the Romans used lead, but I haven't seen any example of a "malleable head" pilum. 
 
Scientists can check the metal structure of some of the pilum finds and see what type of metal they were made from, and the microscopic structure of the metal, showing whether it was cast or hammered. I am not a metallurgist, but that's what I have read in professional journals. 
 
Peter Connolly loves to make the weapons and equipment, and to get people to throw them, stab with them, carry them and test them. I don't know which of these were re-created in which style, but he seems to have a great deal of first hand knowledge of the subject, including using the pilum to penetrate plywood and metal. 
 
 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ucaiusfabius.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Caius Fabius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ROMANISROMANORVM/files/C%20Fabius%201988b.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 9/19/02 12:52:06 am

09-18-2002, 07:44 PM

As an aside, hammering iron alloys, especially when heated, does not tend to harden them. One can overbeat steel and work out the carbon. Hammering drives out carbon atoms and makes them softer and more malleable. Carbon content tends to usually determine the hardness of iron compounds, steel being between .8 to 8 (10 on the outside) percent of the total mass, the more carbon, the harder and less malleable. 
 
The purpose of beating heated iron is to not only shape it, but to regulate the carbon content.

Caius Fabius · 09-18-2002, 07:55 PM

See, learn something every day, in my blacksmithing course, the instructor said that if you hammer a point or an edge you get a more compact crystalline metal structure, which is harder and cuts or stabs better, which is why you should hammer instead of cutting to shape. 
My mistake, for listening to someone just because he was an instructor. I should know better, and do the research myself. After all, that's what I keep telling everyone else to do! EM Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ucaiusfabius.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Caius Fabius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ROMANISROMANORVM/files/C%20Fabius%201988b.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 9/19/02 12:50:10 am

09-18-2002, 08:39 PM

Salve! 
 
I guess it comes down to the question of hammering iron compounds vs. steel. All steel is an iron alloy, but not all iron alloys are steel. Steel being first and foremost an alloy of carbon and iron, my thoughts and understanding gravitated towards it (I tend to work with hand files primarily on found railroad spikes). I misthought that the a pilum was steel-headed, where in fact is possible to over work steel and make it softer than the original billet. 
 
Hammering would increase the density of the metal at the edge of an iron artifact. But not through compacting the crystalling structure. If one forces the material atoms together, the lattice is not preserved. One is just left with a mass of forced-together iron atoms. 
 
As I said, my research experience is mostly in steel working; pattern welding, Japanese, Indonesian, Wootz, etc.

Goffredo · 09-19-2002, 10:42 AM

Pila questions and comments keep coming up. 
 
I once asked around how accurately could it be thrown or was it just a volley weapon? (like the inaccurate muskets). I got a few comments, some that is was difficult to throw and even suggestions that it was ineffective! 
 
I frankly think that if it was difficult for some re-enactor to throw then maybe his pilum wasn't made properly and the center of mass was in the wrong place. An Olympics spear will not fly properly if it is held and thrown the wrong way. That can happen if the athlete holds it wrong. It can also happen if he thinks he is throwing it right but the spear weight is distributed differently. 
 
I wish there was a reliable source of information that could be easily(!) accessed and evaluated. Does Mr. Connolly have a nice web page? I searched with no success. I keep hearing he and others do "experiments".

Caius Fabius · 09-19-2002, 12:38 PM

Mr. Connolly has several excellent books available. He says he is too old and too busy to worry about the internet. Of course, with his research and illustration of his forth-coming book on C. Julius Caesar' battles, and his research on Alexander's battles, as well as his latest articles in JRMES, he may be right. 
 
He did mention some distances achieved by a trained javelin thrower, and other data, but I am not sure if I recorded that lecture. I still need to check my audio tapes, when I find time. 
 
"Just before class started, I looked in the big book where all the world's history is written, and it said...." Neil J. Hackett, PhD ancient history, professor OSU, 1987

09-19-2002, 04:28 PM

Caius, what books are you referring to? I have several of Connolly's books (e.g. Greece and Rome at War), but I'm always looking for more, especially technical sources. Could you, or anyone else, recommend any volumes that would be instructive as to the use of gear? I mean how to throw pila properly, etc.

Caius Fabius · 09-19-2002, 08:24 PM

I learned what little I know while throwing javelins on a Track and Field team at high school. You might check internet sites for links about Olympic javelin throwing. 
 
For a list of Peter Connolly books, you might check Matt Amt's webpages (LEGIO XX) or run a query at amazon . com or bibliofind . com. 
 
Just a thought....., Mr. Connolly says that "Greece and Rome at War" needs to be updated in the light of the last 20 years of discovery and research. He and many other excellent scholars publish in the Journal of Roman Military Equipment Studies, or the ARMA journal. "Just before class started, I looked in the big book where all the world's history is written, and it said...." Neil J. Hackett, PhD ancient history, professor OSU, 1987

09-21-2002, 10:52 PM

Caius, how would I go about obtaining a copy of the ARMA journal? Is there a website for it? I'm from Melbourne, Australia, if that helps. I'm keen to find out what updates/changes have been made to any ideas or theories presented in G&RAW. Thanks. 
 
BTW, those Connolly works-in-progress you mentioned sound very appetizing (mouth-watering in anticipation ). Any idea when the scheduled release dates are?

Caius Fabius · 09-21-2002, 11:06 PM

Mr. Connolly said his Caesar book went to the publishers in the 1980s? But it was stuck on a back shelf, which has allowed him to do much more research and add much up-to date knowledge to this next version. When? No one knows! 
ARMA link 
www.armatura.connectfree.co.uk/arma.htm

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