01-07-2009, 01:53 AM
Stefanos' post raises so many issues that it is best if I reproduce it with commentary. I apologise if I have mis-interpreted what he has written, and am very mindful that he is debating in what is not his native language.....
[quote]Just three examples
Plyleidae: Horses backside - pottery fragment in British Museum and Kylix in Hermitage Museum plus marble fragments in Acropoli and Vravrona Museums…..where it appears carried by Athena on a ‘pan-athenaic’ amphora. However, it is also depicted on Geryon’s shield (legendary King of Tartessus in Spain from whom Heracles stole his famous cattle as his tenth labour) as well as the usual anonymous warriors (at least three different examples)…. What is the association with this family?
Also two coins: one minted in Attika and one minted in Delphi. The coins have on the backside the chariot wheel… I have shown elsewhere that noble families did not mint their own coins in Attica, so coin devices cannot be associated with any particular family, let alone coins from Delphi being associated with an Attic family….. as appearing on shields in pottery at the Vatican and Karlsruhe Museums. (Paris B.T. II I plate XXXIII 15, E.A. Gardner Catalogue of Greek vases in FWM 1897 Newell N.Y. Category H xiii 1905) Some distinguished members of the clan (Olympic winners) sport the chariot as appearing in 86. 25 Tampa museum of Art.
Again, chariots and chariot parts are common emblems, being carried by Athena ( one of some 60 odd shield devices carried by by Athena on Attic pottery!) Amazons, and being depicted not just on Attic pottery, but other Greek and South Italian pottery too…what is being alleged here? That designs associated with chariots are symbolic of Olympic games chariot race winners? What evidence, beyond guesswork, supports this idea? And why the ‘Horses hindquarters’ (being polite :wink: ) and not say, horse-head, or complete horses or even horses hooves, all of which are widely depicted?
The clan controled the cult of Artemis (Stefanos Byzantios Ethnika Peri Poleon Akademie und Verlagsanstellung Gratz 1958 section Plyleidae) What does this mean? ‘Controlled?’…and if, say, the family were hereditary priests of Artemis, what is the supposed connection to chariots/horses as shield emblem? Wasn’t the Horse an attribute of Poseidon?
Alcmeonidae: Tha majority of the pottery shoing the variations of the triscelon are concentrated in Berlin an Munich and most of them have been excavated by the German Archeological school in Athens from the Faliro Area (Power base of the clan),
[color=blue][i] “Power baseâ€
[quote]Just three examples
Plyleidae: Horses backside - pottery fragment in British Museum and Kylix in Hermitage Museum plus marble fragments in Acropoli and Vravrona Museums…..where it appears carried by Athena on a ‘pan-athenaic’ amphora. However, it is also depicted on Geryon’s shield (legendary King of Tartessus in Spain from whom Heracles stole his famous cattle as his tenth labour) as well as the usual anonymous warriors (at least three different examples)…. What is the association with this family?
Also two coins: one minted in Attika and one minted in Delphi. The coins have on the backside the chariot wheel… I have shown elsewhere that noble families did not mint their own coins in Attica, so coin devices cannot be associated with any particular family, let alone coins from Delphi being associated with an Attic family….. as appearing on shields in pottery at the Vatican and Karlsruhe Museums. (Paris B.T. II I plate XXXIII 15, E.A. Gardner Catalogue of Greek vases in FWM 1897 Newell N.Y. Category H xiii 1905) Some distinguished members of the clan (Olympic winners) sport the chariot as appearing in 86. 25 Tampa museum of Art.
Again, chariots and chariot parts are common emblems, being carried by Athena ( one of some 60 odd shield devices carried by by Athena on Attic pottery!) Amazons, and being depicted not just on Attic pottery, but other Greek and South Italian pottery too…what is being alleged here? That designs associated with chariots are symbolic of Olympic games chariot race winners? What evidence, beyond guesswork, supports this idea? And why the ‘Horses hindquarters’ (being polite :wink: ) and not say, horse-head, or complete horses or even horses hooves, all of which are widely depicted?
The clan controled the cult of Artemis (Stefanos Byzantios Ethnika Peri Poleon Akademie und Verlagsanstellung Gratz 1958 section Plyleidae) What does this mean? ‘Controlled?’…and if, say, the family were hereditary priests of Artemis, what is the supposed connection to chariots/horses as shield emblem? Wasn’t the Horse an attribute of Poseidon?
Alcmeonidae: Tha majority of the pottery shoing the variations of the triscelon are concentrated in Berlin an Munich and most of them have been excavated by the German Archeological school in Athens from the Faliro Area (Power base of the clan),
[color=blue][i] “Power baseâ€
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
