New Late Roman Helmet from the Fernpass, Austria

[caiusbeerquitius]

Images here:
oesterreich.orf.at/tirol/stories/85798/

[aitor iriarte]

[size=150:187tc8nj]WOW!![/size]
The bowl is in one piece, not in two. The cheek-pieces (of which type?) are attached to the bowl by means of hinges. The neckguard seems to be rigidly attached to the bowl. Perhaps it was stored inside a textile bag or just wrapped in cloth... Has anybody more pics and information??

Aitor

[FAVENTIANVS]

YOOHOOOOO!! :o o
It says is from the 4th Century? I don't understand German, sorry...

[caiusbeerquitius]

Not so far, it was found only recently, at the Via Claudia Augusta, close to my hometown Fuessen.

[FAVENTIANVS]

Aitor how could you get so many details from just one lil image?? Proffessional warpness? hock: 8)

[aitor iriarte]

Well, I understand German a little...

Aitor

[FAVENTIANVS]

Aahh! From the text, I see now... :oops: :oops: :oops: I forgot you understand German... :wink:

[caiusbeerquitius]

nicht nur der Nasenschutz und die Wangenklappen, sondern auch der Nackenschutz vollständig erhalten seien. Er bestehe aus kleinen Eisenringen, die wie bei einem Kettenhemd zusammen geschmiedet sind. Dieses Helmelement sei bisher archäologisch nur durch wenige fragmentarische Funde bekannt gewesen, erläuterte Grabherr.

Alle Bestandteile des Helms bestünden aus Eisen - mit Ausnahme der bronzenen Nieten, die den Kamm halten.

Not only the Nose guard and the cheek pieces are completely preserved, but also the neckguard. The neckguard consists of small iron rings, which are welded together, like it is the case for chainmail. This feature of Late Roman Helmets was so far only scarcely known through fragmentary findings.
All pices of the Helmet are made from Iron, except for the brass rivets, which hold the ridge.

[Arthes]

Greetings,
at first glance, the eyes look rather like a Vendel helm....but am probably wrong... :roll:
very nicely preserved at 1,600 years old.....!
regards
Arthes

[Virilis]

For Aitor;

If this find is genuine, it really puts our previous conversation about late roman nasal quards on perspective :wink: !!!!!

Wow, breathtaking!

Can´t wait for the melee about this...... :lol:

[caiusbeerquitius]

No reason to belive that this helmet is not geniune. It was examined by a known Archaeologist. The Archaeologist would do the hell and try to forge something, he would loose his job quite quickly...

[Virilis]

Sorry, I did not mean to suggest that this find is a forgery!

Indeed, this helmet could very well be the missing link between Vendel and and late roman ones?? This ridge going from forehead to the back (if the bowl is constructed from one piece) could very well be a relic and perhaps a "barbarian" imitation of a contemporary roman helmet....

Also the nasal bar is quite robust compared to the late roman ones and that also could point to the direction of adaptation in relation to the cultures near the roman empire, who knows?

Could it be possible to publish such finds in, let´s say, five years intervals, because all my speculations about late roman helmets has to be reconsidered due to the finds like this :wink: .... I feel dizzy...

regards,

[Robert Vermaat]

It's an odd thing.



The nasal seems huge!
They say they have both cheek plates and neck guard, but that the neck guard is made from mail. yet the picture shows a solid neck guard, no cheek plates.

They say the bowl is made from one piece, yet it has a ridge. Why? The ridge is meant to connect two or more pieces in such a helmet, not sitting on top of a one-piece bowl..

One assumption they have is that's it's from a Germanic soldier who had this made to look more Roman. I can fully understand why they think that!

[caiusbeerquitius]

The Nasal is much closer to the camera than the rest of the helmet is. Thay's why it seems so huge.

I was wondering about that neck-guard thing too, the pic seems to show something else. Maybe the mail is above or beside it, or the mail is rusted together, so that it appears to be a solid piece at some distance.. :?:
Strange. :o

One assumption they have is that's it's from a Germanic soldier who had this made to look more Roman. I can fully understand why they think that!

Yes, but it's nothing but speculation. Until the Guttmann collection was published, some Helmets that obviously existed were thought of being made up by artists in Rome...

In this case, I'm not too much amazed. Say, a Helmet maker saw one of the new fancy eastern types (that is, e.g. around 300 AD) and tried to copy it, being only familiar with the production of helmets of the Niederbieber group. Such a helmet might be the result. But we'll probably never know. Interesting would be, especialy in this case, a metallurgical expertise for the helmet. Where did the iron come from, and where the brass? That could (!) not only help in finding out the object's date, but also in identifying the area where the helmet was made. I rather doubt a Germanic origin. At that time helmets were not so en vogue among the barbarian troops, rather among their officers/chieftains/watchamacallits. And they would rather have bought Roman helmets, which were available, as we can see from the repetitive issue of laws by Emperors, laws which prohibit the export of arms and armor. For one of those germanic officers/chieftains/watchamacallits, the helm is a little bit... er... simple.
Just some thoughts, not theories.

[Robert Vermaat]

The Nasal is much closer to the camera than the rest of the helmet is. Thay's why it seems so huge.

Nah, I was looking at the guy's fingers. Either he has very small fingers or that nasal is huge.

I was wondering about that neck-guard thing too, the pic seems to show something else. Maybe the mail is above or beside it, or the mail is rusted together, so that it appears to be a solid piece at some distance.. :?:
Strange. :o

Is seems pretty square to me, not like a rusted slab of mail...

Can you get in touch with him?