Shield-strap

[Poftim]

Hi Eric,

Spoken as a true "master of the horse"! From what I have seen here (Holland/Germany), riders use reins, but yes, your observation makes perfect sense (to one never on a horse). Takes a lot of training, I presume, horse and rider acting as one. Does this imply a one rider, same horse ratio, or are these cow-pony's receptive to all riders using similar means of guidance?

A horse is trained to respond to certain cues, any rider that knows the cues can get the horse to preform. To train a horse to turn without the reins, you start him out walking towards a fence,the horse knows you're gonna turn it, he's just wondering how. Instead of using the reins, you cue him by thumping him with the outside knee (so to turn left, you thump him with your right knee) However, you must keep alternating sides so they don't get one sided. Eventually, they'll start responding without the fence being in front of them.

With a good cow pony, (do a web search for 'cutting horse') they get to liking chasing the cows, and after a while you don't have to do anything at all, they'll just chase it, once they know what you want.

DISCLAIMER: We're not formal horse trainers, we just do what we need to make it work.

[Robert]

Cheers Eric.

Thanks for the advice (liked your disclaimer!). When we get round to training the horses, be assured we will get proffesionals in, because of our concern with animal wellfare. The ponies we will be using are of a rugged type D pony (having to be 1 st century) and from what I have heard so far, are very quick on the turn and most responsive. Many happy horsemoments to you! :wink:

[Poftim]

Whats a type D? We use quarter horses.

[Peroni]

I am looking at your picture and your device, and wondering why you don't hold the shield in your left hand, sword/spear/spoon in your right, drop the reigns and control the horse with your knees and weight-shifting? Out here on the ranch, the cow ponies can be controlled with just knees and weight shifting, in fact the indians hardly ever used reigns from what I recall. Seems simpler, doesn't it?

I do hold the shield in the left hand Eric! I use both the rein and the weight shift in the saddle to turn the pony. They respond to both. Unfortunately I do not own my own pony and have to use others that may not be as well trained!

The guige strap is just to help support the weight of the shield and keep it steadier at a canter. Riding Roman saddles with all that equipment gets a little bouncy without stirrups I find! Anything faster than a canter is great as the horses body levels out to a more sturdy platform!

[Robert]

Oeps, sorry, not really into horses :oops: . The height of a D pony is about 1.45 meters, its a larger type of pony, very maneuverable, so I think we're on the same track.

[Crispvs]

Just to return briefly to the original topic of this thread, I am not at all convinced that the shield is being carried on the back. Rather, it is being carried on the left hand shoulder, which would, in my view cause it to swing around the left shoulder to some extent. As to the height of the shield on the sculpture, I agree that it is too high, and I think that the reason, as stated above, is probably that the sculptor wanted to show off a bit more of the shield than he would have been able to if it had been hanging at normal height. This height was probably where the top edge of the shield is just above the left shoulder. This sculpture from Mainz is probably the best representation we have of a soldier in marching order. You will note that his shield is curving around his left shoulder and is at the height I mentioned:


Here is another example of the same thing, from Puteoli:


When I was marching with slung shield, I found that this height was low enough that the shield did not become unbalanced but high enough that the bottom edge of the shield was kept clear of my calves. Early on in the march my shield was slung slightly lower and it was raised to the higher height (by shortening the harness slightly) only after I have sustained quite a lot of painfull cuts and bruises to my upper calves. It was only later that I noticed the similarity of the position of my shield to the position of the shield on the Mainz column base. Here is a picture of my shield in slung position (it is being held back in order to show the harness straps - normally is would cover more of my side):


The diagonal strap is actually my sword baldric. The strap of the shield harness curves back and is attached to the shield handle. In my reconstruction I have used a strap and buckle arrangement to pass straps around the shield handle which can easily be released if necessary. Here are a couple of pictures:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b73/C ... rness1.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b73/C ... rness4.jpg

I was initially worried that the straps would move on the handle and destablise the shield. However, the wieght of the shield on the straps kept them in place and the shield remained very stable for as long as I was carrying it.

Here is a photo of my shield in slung position from behind (as you can see, I had ditched my impedimenta by this point and was resting my left hand against the front edge of the shield, thus pushing it back slightly):
http://www.romanarmy.net/images/Pages/h ... PG_jpg.htm


As far as I know there are no reliable images of Roman soldiers carrying shields 'turtle style' on their backs. All three examples I am aware of (that is the two above and the well known scene from Trajan's column) show the shield curing around the left shoulder. Even the example in the first post of this thread is actually carrying the shield over his left shoulder, as is Flavoleius Cordus in this picture: http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b73/C ... cordus.jpg

Maybe the Romans did carry their shields on the backs like turtles (I know Peter Connolley has been experimenting with this idea using a reproduction of the Fayum shield) but the surviving evidence does not show this. What is does show, apparently quite cosistantly, is that shields were carried over the left shoulder (leaving the right shoulder free to support shafted weapons) and that curving shields carried over the left shoulder could and did curve around the left side of the body. My own experience of this carrying position is that it is quite comfortable and does not feel unbalanced.

Crispvs

[Robert]

Salve Crispvs,

Ties in with my experience completely. I have found this is also a good way (and height) for carrying the oval shield. When riding, I have observed the strap to be over the right shoulder, bringing the shield to the side covering the left side of the body when riding and leaving the right free for hasta and swordplay.

[Poftim]

By: Robert
Oeps, sorry, not really into horses Embarassed . The height of a D pony is about 1.45 meters, its a larger type of pony, very maneuverable, so I think we're on the same track. Very Happy

That's about right, here that would be 14.25 hands (still a pony) I always liked the smaller ones, they are small, tough and quick. "Fun Fact:" Technically, here, a horse is 14.5 hands. A hand is 4 inches. Anything smaller is "technically" a pony.

By: Peroni
I do hold the shield in the left hand Eric! I use both the rein and the weight shift in the saddle to turn the pony. They respond to both. Unfortunately I do not own my own pony and have to use others that may not be as well trained!

The guige strap is just to help support the weight of the shield and keep it steadier at a canter. Riding Roman saddles with all that equipment gets a little bouncy without stirrups I find! Anything faster than a canter is great as the horses body levels out to a more sturdy platform!

First, do you hold the reins with one hand or two?

Secondly, you're right that riding at a trot can be bouncy unless you're "well-seated." Try pushing your heels down like they were in stirrups and roll your hips with the motion, (like you're humping the horse.) Riding without a saddle is the best way to learn how to ride. Also, usually the Indians wouldn't ride with a saddle and they could ride perfectly well, so I'm sure the Romans figured it out as well.

[Peroni]

First, do you hold the reins with one hand or two?

Just one (the left). The right carries the spear/sword.