Thermopylae:Advance!

[Anonymous]

It IS a very nice picture and I think the second version is somewhat larger than the first. As to spotting me in the crowd, it would seem it's not Thespiae's turn, at this point!

[Comerus Gallus]

As to spotting me in the crowd, it would seem it's not Thespiae's turn, at this point!

You have the right ege to portrait our King Leonidas as we discussed, but you definetly decided to be our "Thespian General Demophilus" ?

If not tel me I can act the part! :oops: :twisted:

I had decided to be a Thespian Hoplite already, with black linothorax up to chiton & cloack, we are about to die there so why not :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demophilus

Maybe the Leonine comati Anastasios Porporis can do Leonidas, if there is no one else?, I understand you got already your own General right, the one with kranoi with inverted crest?

[Anonymous]

[

You have the right ege to portrait our King Leonidas as we discussed, but you definetly decided to be our "Thespian General Demophilus" ?


If not tel me I can act the part! :oops: :twisted:

I had decided to be a Thespian Hoplite already, with black linothorax up to chiton & cloack, we are about to die there so why not :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demophilus

Maybe the Leonine comati Anastasios Porporis can do Leonidas, if there is no one else?, I understand you got already your own General right, the one with kranoi with inverted crest?

I have actually portrayed Leonidas previously, in a film made by Serge Besanger. I think he was actually supposed to be even older than I, at Thermopylae. Portraying Demophilus would be a great honour, If I can get a convincing Melanochitonos kit together in time. Then again, he wasn't a professional soldier, so he can't have been part of the elite unit since, as I understand it, they always were professionals.

There will be several positions of honour to be allocated. I have given it some thought, but who does what will be partly determined by who actually turns up. Our Hoplomachos has a transverse crest and, yes, I think he might feel he has some claim to the right-hand end of the line.

[Albert G Lopez]

Your painting is excellent! I would love to see more of your work.

[hoplite14gr]

Paul every renowned classical city state could afford to equip 300 elite troops. These hoplites were known as logade,epilektoi or Hippeis(horsemen).
Thespiae had good fields and were a rich city. They had links to Athens and Haliartos for trade. Demophilos was from a family of good standing and if we belive Plutarchos and Pausanias possibly from a SPARTOI (indigenous clan).
That means that except the cresent or hound of Thespiae he could also have the red snake of the Beotian SPARTOI on his shield. His equipment would be of good quality and so his clothes. Being selected for general means that he possibly had won in an athletic contest at some point in his life.
Kind regards

[Susanne]

Being selected for general means that he possibly had won in an athletic contest at some point in his life.

To which extent was tactical thinking taken into consideration when picking out potential generals / strategoi?

[hoplite14gr]

Winning in the Olympic games for example was proof of comitment dedication and willingness to achieve. The same applied for Pythia, Nemea and Isthmia.
Spartan Olympic winners for example had the privilege of fighting at the side of the king carrynig the "docana" on their shields and were selected for officer status.
Kind regards

[Susanne]

It's like they chose to give priority to burly men, rather than men that were capable of making wise decisions. Not that tactical thinking was important back then, as they simply had to steamroll their enemies and protect the unprotected flank.

Miltiades was an exception, though.

[hoplite14gr]

Don´t be simplistic!
I mention as example Pauasanias in Platea, Vrasidas in Amfipoli, and the Myrrioi. Ancient Battle after the Ionic revolt and the facing of a different opponent (Persians) required tactical skill and manouvering!
Commitment and atchievement was astrong factor but other things counted too!
Kind regards

[Susanne]

With my utmost respect, Stefanos, I eat my words.

[Anonymous]

Paul every renowned classical city state could afford to equip 300 elite troops. These hoplites were known as logade,epilektoi or Hippeis(horsemen).
Kind regards

I was basing my reasoning on that, but I'd been led to believe that these elites were full-time soldiers, whose living was paid for by the state, thus freeing them to train together and forge unit cohesion. My understanding was that Demophilos himself had a full-time job.

[hoplite14gr]

Sussane you are a brave lass to admit a minor mistake.
Dont worry, I too make lots of them. 8)

Paul, Generals were elected in the Classical Period, except Sparta were the Kings fulfiled this role. It was the duty of the citizen, especially upper class citizen like Demophilos to have himself prepared for this task.
Hoplomachoi trained only weapons but also straegy and tactics.
Only Argive epilektoi or Theban HIEROLOCHITAE were supported for a period by the state.
In Athens only horsemen of the late classical period were supported by the state and contignents of Skythian archers or Thracian peltasts were hired fulltime.
Kind regards

[conon394]

hoplite14gr

Winning in the Olympic games for example was proof of comitment dedication and willingness to achieve. The same applied for Pythia, Nemea and Isthmia.
Spartan Olympic winners for example had the privilege of fighting at the side of the king carrynig the "docana" on their shields and were selected for officer status

Olympic victors were not necessarily considered excellent soldiers or leaders. Both Xenophon, Tyrtaios and Euripides have less than flattering assessments of athletic ‘super-stars’ as military or leadership material.

Only Argive epilektoi or Theban HIEROLOCHITAE were supported for a period by the state.
In Athens only horsemen of the late classical period were supported by the state and contignents of Skythian archers or Thracian peltasts were hired fulltime.

That seems like a very conservative reading of the evidence. The performance of the Athenian epilektoi at Tamynai, against the Celts and with Demetrius certainly suggests they were something of a regular force, not just an ad hoc unit. I don’t think it is a coincidence that the only the epilektoi and the cavalry survived as regular forces at Athens in the 3rd century (or that they seem to have been retained by Demetrius for fighting outside Greece). The Athenian epilektoi were perhaps not completely supported by the state, but I would suggest they were very likely subsidized (like the cavalry) and expected to train and drill regularly and be available for extended service – In effect a regular force.

The Athenian cavalry was in place before the 431 BC certainly classical not late classical (which suggests the 4th century to me). The Scythian archers were only a police force; those used on campaign were Athenian (some 1600 according to Thucydides 2.13.8). While I agree the Athenians hired Thracians, don’t ignore the fact that they also used Athenian peltasts in the Peloponnesian war and by Aeschines’ day such training was a regular feature of ephebe drill.

[hoplite14gr]

3rd century was a time were the tradition of the citizen soldier had declined.
Many city states started relying heavily on mercenaries.
Classic Attic pottery shows Skythian archers supporting hoplites.
Yes they served as police but it seems that they also helped whacking Masistios cavalry in Platea.
And yes olympic champions have flaws like everybody else and the writers you mention complain about individuals not about the habit of getting extra points for being an athletics champion.
Kind regards

[Arthes]

Sorry about that, Johnny, just couldn't resist it!

What we would like to know is ... are you as bad in real life... :lol: :lol: