Gospel of Judas

[Carus Andiae]

Imagine Tony Curtis standing up, pointing at Kirk Douglas and shouting "He's Spartacus!" Boos from the audience.

Cheers from this part of the audience - hooray for Larry Olivier! :lol:

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave omnes,

I’m throwing in my two quadrans:

This debate already lasts for 2000 years and will last until the end of days. Because it’s a matter of personal taste or wishes.

I’m a Christian, too and as far as I understand, the bible offers a choice. People might believe in Jesus Christ (being no teacher or prophet, but God himself) try to follow him step by step, serving other people in an unselfish way and attempt step by step to do God’s will (not the will of a special priest or church). Or people might believe in the power of mankind and follow their own will at least.

The first choice will Christians save for an everlasting life together with Christ (even if they have no ‘easy’ livings – in the first centuries, lots of Christians played their part in the Roman entertainment industry :wink: ). The second choice will people get lost for eternity, even if they are friendly and helpful guys.

Self-evidently people always looked for a third way, getting a VIP-seat beside God’s throne in heaven by sitting between all chairs in their earthly life. So here’s Judas entering the stage now.

The gospels report, that he travelled some years with Jesus. So he might not be an obvious bad person. Perhaps he was very friendly and helpful. The other disciples trusted him, being treasurer of their party. But finally Judas decided against Jesus and for his own purposes. The bible won’t tell us why, perhaps not only for the 30 silver coins. Anyway his reasons seem to be without meaning.

But for some reason, people like to justify Judas. They like to hear, that Judas was principally a good guy, so a just, fair and endless loving God must save him, even if Judas did not believe in Jesus. And they demand God to save all people who are friendly and helpful, good guys in our eyes (neither if they believe in Christ nor any God…).
The other ‘enlightenment’ is handing over a halo to Judas, looking at him as a Saint, a martyr. He unwittingly only did God’s will, like a marionette. Someone had to do the dirty job, and the Lord let him play that role. How could a righteous and loving God blame him for that – even if Judas in fact had betrayed Christ? :wink:

Therefore we won’t find a common solution here. Personally, I trust the ‘biblical’ gospels, as I trust in the historical reliability of the bible.

Not long ago, I've read an article about the Centurion Cornelius, mentioned in Acts 10 (M P Speidel: The Roman army in Judaea under the procurators, Roman Army Studies Vol. II). The Author M P Speidel connected the ‘Italian cohort’ to an ‘Augustan cohort’, which is mentioned not only in Acts 27.1 but also in a building inscription found in the Hauran mountains. But that’s another story… And by the way: I found the hint to this very interesting article…here at RAT :wink:

Greetings from Germany

Heiko (Cornelius Quintus)

[tlclark]

I agree, it was not decided for all from the top down. It was a personal opinion, but an opinion which was expected to be agreed upon. In this case the said bishop was influential and later it was decided to follow what he wrote about the subject. The gnostics had different ideas but the main difference is that they beleived, like the Pelagians after them, that each Christian had a personal relation to God, making the Church superfluous.

Not quite. Pelagius and Gnosticism are VERY different.

The Gnostics were rather elitist in their position. All were divine "sparks" broken off from the one true god by the violence of the creation wrought by the demi-urge. By means of the true knowledge, one could see and access this spark which was part of the one true God and return to it. Christ is only the messenger telling people to listen to their sparks and giving them the divine gnosis by which they could liberate it from the muck of creation

In Pelagius' view, Christ is the son of God and mediator with man. Pelagius believed that all were equally accessible to God through Christ, and obligated to him. Pelagius then emphasizes free will and personal accountability to God, mediated through the person of Christ. Pelagius is the antithesis of Augustine's position of predetermination. This eerily parallels the split between Meno, Arman and Calvin. In Pelagius view the church wasn't unnecessary. It had a role as pedagogue, shepherd, confessional, teacher, preacher, and a host of other reasons, but that ultimately salvation was between God and the individual. For Augustine, the church is far more supreme and all-encompassing.

Travis