\'Crocodile Hunter\' Steve Irwin killed

[JRSCline]

Tim wrote:

The paradox I was pointing out was that, while he was doing this, he was also supporting certain political leaders whose policies are directly responsible for the habitat destruction that led to him having to preserve that endangered wildlife in the first place.

I could agree it may be a paradox, seen from a certain political viewpoint. But given that the man is dead, it just seems a bit mean-spirited to suggest that his political views make him less worthy than others to be called an environmentalist.

Anyway, I believe the risks Steve Irwin took were calculated, always with a wary eye to striking ranges, species temperment, venom toxicity and other rational factors for risk assessment. He made it look easy because it was second nature for him, having been dealing with animals since a very young age.

That doesn't mean he was invincible, or didn't take an extreme amount of risk. But I won't condemn him for choosing a life on the wild side. I don't think Steve could have lived any other way than exactly how he did.

Having some diving experience, I tried thinking about how one might manage to be killed by a stingray. They are very innocuous animals who invariably prefer flight to fight. The only way I could see it happening is if you somehow put your torso directly above their back. Water wasn't Steve's best element, but he would have known how rays defend themselves.

Apparently the ray was partially buried in the sand. Steve may not have realized the ray was right under him, or if he did, not have thought that simply hovering over it would provoke such an attack. He probably had better sense than to deliberately harass a large ray, when it would've been perfectly poised to strike him in the vital organs.

Just theories. The actual tape will never see light of day, nor should it.

[Tib. Gabinius]

Tobias said: "I was soldier also, but i would never compare that work with what the crocodil hunter did.
Soldiers do everything they can to avoid situations, where they can be killed."

The second you wear the uniform of a soldier, you understand that you will likely be put into harm's way. That's part of the job a soldier undertakes. Like soldiers, Steve did a job that was full of many dangers, but I don't think he deliberately put himself in what he, as a trained professional, considered too high of a risk. The same thing happens to soldiers that are ambushed, or their APC hits a land mine. They don't knowingly try and hit landmines, but accidents happen. That goes with the job.

I already mentioned, that was the part of my text you didnt quote, that soldiers work is dangerous in itself.
But the different is, that not one pioneer would throw himself to the ground, laughing in a camera and talkin about a "beautiful example of a mine, detonating already by vibration, and look how deep it is in..." Cause the danger would be to high.

That jobs have a risk is quite normal, some more, some less, some jobs are more usfull some less.
Its a question how to handle with the danger and how to put the responsibility behind.

And most of those soldiers have families. These are families who marry their husbands or wives knowing they may not come back from their jobs. That's the unfortunate burden that they carry, and it's no different than Steve's family. The principles are exactly the same, just under different circumstances. It's not fair to say that one family or person had any less of a burden than another.

And what is the most used words? "Take care" "come back!" and so on.
And the soldiers will try to do so, like the crafters working on roofs or the policeman, who all do sensfull work which cant be done other ways.

To kiss a "brown snake" isnt that way.
I also would go into action if im ordered to do, and i know the high risk this work inculdes, especially for recons.
But i also wouldnt spring off my cover if someone is shooting at me, just to get a kick.
And i never, really never would hold my son on the arm, going into battle.

Thats why i cant accept the compare.

He had a job, a quite normal job i guess. There a some dozends of TV animal / wildlife moderators like Jaques Costeau, Sielmann and so on.
It was the way he did the job...

[Magnus]

My friend told me too (he watched the news about it) that Steve was slightly positioned behind the the stingray, while his friend was in front of it. So the ray apparently didn't like being boxed in, and happened to nail Steve who was closer. There has been something like 4 reported deaths by stingrays in the history of Australia, so this wasn't any ordinary accident, but rather a fluke. And when something like that happens, it doesn't matter what you do to prepare for it.

Tobias, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one

[Caius Fabius]

Out of the top 10 dangerous jobs, I have held 4 of them, plus military and law enforcement. No wonder I now walk with a cane!

But the different is, that not one pioneer would throw himself to the ground, laughing in a camera and talkin about a "beautiful example of a mine, detonating already by vibration, and look how deep it is in..." Cause the danger would be to high.

Hmm, you don't know the same EOD (explosive ordenance disposal) guys that I do. After the action, there are a lot of laughing and jokes, sometimes in the middle of it, and usually before it as well, especially if someone does something stupid, like the time we had to spend 15 minutes looking for a guy's thumb, while laughing hilariously.....

In Iraq, one of our guys was going to 'the bathroom', and a sniper started shooting at him, and he couldn't stop what he was doing, (not conveniently); and the other troops were all laughing and yelling at him, so that it took a few minutes to get everyone actually looking for the sniper, and stopping the sniper. Then we made jokes about the poor soldier who had been hit in 'the bottom' with bits of fragments from a near miss which also took the heel off from his boot. (Of course, then we had to prevent the 'wounded' soldier from going out and mutilating the enemy body.... but, and I repeat BUTT :twisted: , the guy did get a "Purple Heart" for combat injuries caused by an enemy action..... (even if the exact circumstances were not fully reported..)

hock: :lol: :roll:

[Magnus]

Hahahah...great story Caius.

[FAVENTIANVS]

Whatever... but he risked too much.

[Thiudareiks Flavius]

Tim wrote:

The paradox I was pointing out was that, while he was doing this, he was also supporting certain political leaders whose policies are directly responsible for the habitat destruction that led to him having to preserve that endangered wildlife in the first place.

I could agree it may be a paradox, seen from a certain political viewpoint. But given that the man is dead, it just seems a bit mean-spirited to suggest that his political views make him less worthy than others to be called an environmentalist.

It's not mean-spirited, just accurate. The guy was a wildlife conservationist. And good for him. The only time I ever heard him say a word on the broader issue of the protection of the environment generally was when he disparaged the leader of the Greens Party in terms that indicated that, whatever his skills as a showman, he wasn't exactly the sharpest implement in the tool shed.

All I'm saying is praise the man for what he was, not what he demonstrably wasn't. He wasn't an environmentalist because he never did or said anything about the environment or its protection.

[Caius Fabius]

How can one know who is an environmentalist? It is highly possible that someone can donate sums of money to better environmental groups, recycle, and do their best, one on one, for the environment, without jumping up and down with a baby in their arms saying, "Look at me, I am a Tree Hugger!"

You don't have to be 'in your face' Green and Mean', Earth First with railroad spikes in trees to be an environmentalist. If someone can use his position to have private conversations with people who actually make decisions, maybe even giving support to people who are not fully 'Green' in order to nudge their agenda, then it might be well worth the effort.

Of course, if anyone wants to buy an old electric submarine, and start hunting whalers, I would love to go along and take pictures. hock:

[FAVENTIANVS]

Here is a SECRET!
If you take chances and risks, eventually YOU will die.
If you stay home safe, eventually YOU will die.

It's not whether or not you will die, because you will, everyone, but it is how you use your life, that really matters. I suspect that he was as satisfied as he would ever be!

At last someone reasonable! hock:

What do you mean with reasonable? :? The rest aren't we?

[Chuck Russell]

this is jsut getting silly here folks. lets move on.

[Robert Vermaat]

But as he was shot from up close with 2 bullet through his heart he probably was dead instantly.

IIRC (from a paper I wrote a long, long time ago) he did survive for a bit and they took him upstairs again, where he then died. Embellishment? Maybe.

I like the way how 'death myths' start. The 'last words' of Steve Irwin were invented within 24 hrs and went round the world in less time.
Now that you brought William up, I was at the murder site less than a week ago and had a look at the bullet holes in the wall next to the stairs. If he was shot through the heart the holes were awfully low. Either the floor was rebuilt, at least a metre higher than before (a question the museum people could not answer) or poor William was shot whilst lying down on the stairs... hock:

Come to mention it - how did Julius Ceasar really die?

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

Now that you brought William up, I was at the murder site less than a week ago and had a look at the bullet holes in the wall next to the stairs. If he was shot through the heart the holes were awfully low. Either the floor was rebuilt, at least a metre higher than before (a question the museum people could not answer) or poor William was shot whilst lying down on the stairs...

i think that this question was brought up earlier. IIRC the bulletholes are almost at floorlevel. Perhaps Balthasar was standing higher then William??

Come to mention it - how did Julius Ceasar really die?

internal bleedings, massive blood loss??

[claudia crisis]

Come to mention it - how did Julius Ceasar really die?

internal bleedings, massive blood loss??

How about "shortness of breath"
He certainly stopped breathing, so couldnt get any shorter than that....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hilary

[Lepidina]

As a friend of mine at university used to say, "Gun don't kill people, bullets don't kill people, tiny holes kill people. Lots and lots of holes."

[Caius Fabius]

All death can be attributedl to 'Heart Failure'.... sooner or later :lol:
Just look at the last century's medical records from many worldwide prisons..... :x