Lamellar and cataphract armour

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,

I was wondering if this is an exampleof scale-locking armor (or "lamellar") that the Romans wore in the 3rd century.

If not, does anyone have a link to a photo of scale-locking plates ?

Thanks in advance.

Theo

[Marcus Julius]

I have found the Osprey books to be desperately lacking in detail.

I like the division idea of lamallar being entirely self supporting (in the case that the plates are attached to each other in one fashion or another) and "scale" being attached to a backing. Though, what I remember my ideas of what scale is, though, even squamata would not count, as I had always envisioned each scale to be free hanging from the backing material. Thus I, personally, would describe squamata to be more of a hybrid of scale and lamellar. The closest historical find I have seen that I personally would call scale is Lorica Plumata.

Definitions, classifications, and terminologies are often widely open to interpretation.

Theodosius: those ones which you linked to are examples of Lorica Squamata.

Franklin: There are a few reconstructions of Wisby coats on this page.

[aitor iriarte]

Theo, those are 'common' scales. Locking-scales need to be tied by a staple at the lower end too. That's why they are easily mistaken by lamellae...
I have no on-line pic at hand to post here , sorry

Aitor

[Martin Wallgren]

Gotlanders were rich peasants, Franklin, and the armour, if fine, was rather outdated :wink:

Aitor

Indeed, and most of them where not in armour at all. 500 danes and mercenarys killed of 1500 in a afternoon so there is proally more correct to talk about the Massacre of Visby. (Wisby is a very old spelling of the name and the name of the town is pronounced vith a very sharp v as in village! :wink: )

[Theodosius the Great]

Aitor,

I suspected they were 'regular' scales, thank you for confirming that.

I've done some more reading on older threads and Dan Peterson says you need holes on all four sides to be classified as lamellar or locking-scale. It sounds like you've said as much.

But would locking-scale be inappropriate for making a shirt ? I read that locking-scales were only found in the form of leg armor.

Marcus,

Thank you for your answer as well :-) )

Theo

[Marcus Julius]

But would locking-scale be inappropriate for making a shirt ? I read that locking-scales were only found in the form of leg armor.

Both of these links come from the first page of this thread.

This statue
and
This recreation
Might give you somewhere to start. I have also seen some engravings showing something that appears to be lamellar or locking scale styles of armor around the 6th century in Italy.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That first image of the statue reminds me of an image of banded armour from asia, an image of which is on a thread here somewhere, IIRC!

Actually posted by Tarbicus earlier now that I look...

[Conal]

What do you guys make of these three ?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... eities.jpg

[Theodosius the Great]

Wow. Forgot about those.

Palmyran deities wearing what appears to be lamellar. But I'm confused about those horizontal bands separating each row :?


~Theo

[Franklin]

Lamellar rows are frequently padded with leather strips.

[Cassius Tullius]

Have you noticed the sleeves? They look padded and possibly braided below the elbow. The statue of the Tetrarchs and the statue of Valentinian (that stands before the Church of the Holy Sepulcher) also look like these.

[Conal]

These are obviously eastern but dated to 1st or 2nd century AD but the swords appear to be Hispaniensis which dissapeared from use in the early 1st century BC.

Questions;

Why depict them with lamellar if Romanising them?

Was lamellar in use as earlty as 1st century BC?

Any reason why someone who had previously served in the east could not have rocked up in invading Britain with Claudius dressed in one of these ?

[Marcus Julius]

These are obviously eastern but dated to 1st or 2nd century AD but the swords appear to be Hispaniensis which dissapeared from use in the early 1st century BC.

Questions;

Why depict them with lamellar if Romanising them?

Was lamellar in use as earlty as 1st century BC?

Was lamellar in use then? most certainly it was.
Have a look at this thread. About 3/4 of the way down the page, read the quote posted by "Eleatic Guest"

Now, whether or not "Romans" were using lamellar? Well, I guess that would depend on how much "Romanising" has to happen before you consider them Roman.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I was going to say mainz gladii with Hispaniensis hilts! :lol:

[Dan Howard]

Was lamellar in use then? most certainly it was.
Have a look at this thread. About 3/4 of the way down the page, read the quote posted by "Eleatic Guest".

Where in that quoted passage is the word "lamellar" used? In any case, an author who doesn't know what mail is can hardly be expected to know the difference between scale and lamellar.