Hunnish-Magyar language lesson.

[Martin Wallgren]

Eh... Vallus, off topic means that a post is not about what the thread is about, and possible not event about what the forum is about! So in this case you have defined the topic of the thread and no moderator has said it´s not fit for the forum. Therefor as long as you argue for your point of view the history of the Hungerian language youre on topic!

So in fact this post of mine is kind of off topic. :lol:

[Treveri Gaul]

Martin.

Thank you. That's right, it wouldn't, would it.

The Torques in the Hunnish tribe. I know this is That's rebel thought. :lol:
In the Carpatian Basin from Hunnish graves was found the fairest gold torques in all Europa. We dont know what did this symbol in the Hunnish tribe. Maybe, symbol of the riches. Hungarian linguists had said: This TOR-QUES word, come from the Hungarian language in Latin language. In the Hungarian language TO-ROK = throat.

[Robert Vermaat]

Robert.

I don't understand your outbursts. You don't know us.

No outbursts, I was just repeating (with a comic note) what you said in several posts before.

Thank you. That's right, it wouldn't, would it.

Yes, martin is right. The thread was moved because it was no longer about enemies of the Romans, but more and more about languages of (mostly) peoples that were unrelated to the Romans

The Torques in the Hunnish tribe. I know this is That's rebel thought. :lol:
In the Carpatian Basin from Hunnish graves was found the fairest gold torques in all Europa. We dont know what did this symbol in the Hunnish tribe. Maybe, symbol of the riches. Hungarian linguists had said: This TOR-QUES word, come from the Hungarian language in Latin language. In the Hungarian language TO-ROK = throat.

Well, does 'torque' not mean something like 'twisted', referring to the way the metal of these thigs are twisted?
Afaik, we don't know the original name.[/quote]

[Chariovalda]

Drat, my own reply earlier this afternoon seems to have disappeared...

Indeed, torque is thought to be derived from "torquere", to twist (compare with the English word torsion). I would strongly advise against "torquere" your torok too much...

Anyway, you have to be very careful of just comparing words between different languages. With a million words (actually, just a few hundred thousand, but with different endings etc. - like dog, dogs, doggie, doggies - you might get a million) in some languages, you ALWAYS get a substantial number that more or less sound similar and have related meanings. These are so-called "false cognates" - words that, at first sight, are related, but really are not.

Mark Rosenfelder composed two lists of such "false cognates" on the fly:

Chinese ren 'person'
Quechua runa 'person'

Chinese ch'ung 'insect'
Quechua chinchi 'type of insect'
English chigger

Chinese shui 'water'
Quechua sut'u 'wet'
French suée 'sweat'
Greek hudor 'water'
Dutch schuit 'boat'
Turkish su 'water'

Chinese shuohua 'talk'
Quechua suka 'whistle'
French charler 'chat'

Chinese lao 'old'
Quechua laqla 'old'
Tok Psn. lapun 'old'

Chinese nai 'breast'
Quechua ñuñu 'breast'
French néné 'breast'
Bulgar. nenka 'breast'

Chinese sheng 'rise'
Quechua seqay 'rise'

Chinese cheh 'this'
Quechua chay 'that'
French ce 'this/that'

Chinese chihfan 'eat'
Quechua chipay 'close mouth'
French chef 'cook'

Chinese chung 'middle'
Quechua chawpi 'center'
Italian centro 'center' (c = ch)

Chinese ti 'earth'
Quechua tiksimuyu 'earth'
Spanish tierra 'earth'

Chinese ch'ing 'please'
Quechua hinay 'do thus'

Chinese wang 'king'
Quechua waminqa 'chief'

Chinese you 'again'
Quechua yapa 'addition'
Spanish ya 'already'

Chinese kung 'work'
Quechua kunay 'carry'
English gung-ho 'eager to work'

Chinese ch'uan 'river'
Quechua chumay 'dip in water'
Spanish chupar 'drink, suck'
Dutch schoon 'clean'

Chinese lai 'come'
Quechua riy 'go'
French aller 'go'

Chinese ai 'love'
Quechua ayni 'mutual help'
French aimer 'love'

Chinese san 'mountain'
Quechua senqa 'mountain peak'
French chaîne 'mountain range'

Chinese nü 'woman'
Quechua ñusta 'princess'
Dutch nuf 'aloof girl'
Greek (gy)ne 'woman'
Latin (femi)na'woman'
French nana 'woman'
German -in fem. suffix

Chinese ma 'mother'
Quechua mama 'mother'
French maman 'mother'

Chinese nan 'difficult'
Quechua nanaq 'painful'

Chinese kei 'give'
Quechua qoy 'give'
Scots gie 'give'

and Mandarin Chinese / English:

baba 'daddy' papa
bai 'white' fair (in color)
ban 'remove' ban
bao 'luxuriant foliage' bough
bei 'low, vulgar, mean' base
bei 'passive marker' by
beihou 'behind' behind
bengdai 'bandage' bandage
bi 'pen' bic, biro
bu 'book' book
chang 'sing' chant
chao 'stir-fry' chow
chi 'eat' chew
dadu 'bet' debt
dage ren '12 people' dozen
dai 'put on' tie 'fasten'
dan 'dawn' dawn
dao 'to' to
dei 'must' duty, due
dun 'ton' ton
er 'ear' ear
fazi 'way, means' fashion
fei 'fly' fly
feibo 'shabby, trifling' feeble
feishi 'troublesome, fussy' fussy
gang 'work collectively' gang 'group'
gei 'give' give
gouhe 'gully' gully
gu (W-G ku) 'cow' cow
guizi 'devil' ghost
guo 'pass through' go
hao 'hero' hero
hong 'hum of crowd' hum
huran 'suddenly' hurrying
ji 'mock' jeer
jiemei 'sisters' geminate
jueding 'decide' judge
junfa 'warlord' junta
kan 'read' ken
ken 'willing' can
keneng 'possible' can
kouyu 'spoken language' koine 'common language'
kuai 'fast' quick
kusi 'very similar' quasi
lazhu 'hold fast' lasso
lei 'flower bud' lei 'flower necklace'
lian 'connect' line
lianxi 'contact' link
libie 'leave' leave
long 'dragon' lion
long 'grand' long
loulie 'base, mean' lowly
luedi 'conquer' loot
ma 'mother' Ma
ma 'horse' mare
manbu 'stroll' mambo
meili 'beauty' mellifluous
meiju 'enumerate' measure
mian 'face' mien
miao 'mewing' mew, miaow
moter 'model' model
mubing 'raise troops' mobilize
mutong 'shepherd' mutton
nanti 'difficult, baffling' knotty
naiyou 'cream' mayo
pan 'plate' pan
paxiu 'shy' bashful
pei 'match, pair' pair
pei 'compensate' pay
po 'pour' pour
sha 'shark' shark
shafa 'sofa' sofa
shan 'mountain' (mountain) chain
shangai 'correct' change
shange 'folk song' song
shei 'who' she '3p fem. pron.'
shenti 'health' sanity
shezhi 'arrange, put' schedule
shechi 'shooting' shoot
shenshi 'gentleman' gentry
shi 'eat' chew
shi (pron. shr) 'true, real' sure
shi 'Mrs, Madam' she
shi 'see, examine' see
shifu 'master, expert' chief
shiming 'mission' scheme
shu 'school' school
shuo 'say, tell' show
si 'silk' silk
song 'give, send' send
songge 'ballad' song
soucha 'search' search
sunzi 'grandson' son
tamen 'they, them' them
tai 'too' too
ti 'tear' tear
tie 'stick on' tie
tou 'throw' throw
toupi 'deep' deep
wei 'weft' weft
weida 'great' wide
wen 'lukewarm' warm
yun 'iron' iron
xi 'drama, play' show
xiang 'sound' sound
xin 'suffering' sin
xinshi 'new style' ginchy
zeguo 'wetlands' soggy
zhuan 'turn' turn

The point is, unless you know more about a language's history, and apply the principles of historical linguistics - the ways in which languages change - and just look for random and possibly false cognates, you'll only likely to make a fool of yourself.
István, applying an amateur linguist reasoning similar to yours, the Dutch writer/poet Willem Hietbrink has claimed that the word cigarette is derived from Dutch: "zuugeteruut", "suck it out".

Of course, people eager to claim greater prestige for their mothertongue or young linguists eager to make a name for themselves hate historical linguistics. Their reasoning seems to be that if science proves them wrong, why, then science must be wrong!

That way lies the road to the wild and wacky world of pyramids, kinky experiments by aliens and South American Magyars buzzing off into space in their flying saucers... :roll:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well since we are speaking about Hungarian ladies here who speak Maygar....(sorry if this is off topic) we are definately in my favorite topic of conversation! lol: 8)

Not that I understood a single word she said, but it had a very exotic quality to it, alost alien....... :roll: P P

[Arthes]

Greetings,
I suppose for one, we can blame the Romans for spreading the culture of other lands....by way of the Legions. 'Join the Army and See the World' isn't a new slogan you know... :lol:
There was also the migration period or periods, i've said before that all the waves of immigrants into Britain (the historical ones that is :wink: ) have not affected the basic Anglo Saxon language we still speak, just added to it and this would have been the case elsewhere.
I have noted a few Pictish words and names that are not dissimilar to some in the Middle East ...and of course they have an Elephant symbol ...!
Egyptian Pharoah Nectanbo and Pictish King Nechtan.....is one good example. (Nectanbo II was, of course, rumoured to be the real father of Alexandros..!)
There are also (as already mentioned) the Irish family legends of Scythian-Cretans who came to Ireland via Alexandria and Spain and had some Egyptian blood, some of the early Irish clans were called Prytani...
Talking about Maya, I hold with the theory that some of the Minoans made it to South America, there is also a tribe that could be descended from the Greeks...!
(i'm listening to a band from Peru at the moment..!)
Regards
Arthes

[Chariovalda]

Hi Cristina,

Just to be a smarty pants, Nectanebo I and II are Hellenizations of the birthnames of Pharaohs Nakhtnebef ("Strong/powerful is his lord) and Nakhthorheb (Strong/powerful is his lord Horus).

As for good old King Nechtan, his name's probably derived from a Irish water deity of the same name, the husband of the goddess Boann (Boyne).
The name may or may not be etymologically linked with Nuada and/or Roman Neptune (the Old Welsh equivalent of Nechtan appears to be Neithon). Anyway, Neptune is also a somewhat watery fellow. Another deity that may be linked is the Indo-Iranian Napat Apam, the "child" or "grandson" of Water. It looks likely the name goes back a loooong way into Indo-European history.

No likely connection therefore between Nechtan and Nectanebo. Of course, all bets are off should they find a 30th dynasty obelisk in Ireland 8)

[Arthes]

No likely connection therefore between Nechtan and Nectanebo. Of course, all bets are off should they find a 30th dynasty obelisk in Ireland 8)

What do you think the archaeologists of the future will make of Thotmes III's obelisk on the Thames embankment - he must have been an ancestor of the Cleopatra who emigrated to England and bought the family heirloom with her... :lol: :lol:
Needle
I hadn't known all of the story behind it, interesting....

[Robert Vermaat]

No likely connection therefore between Nechtan and Nectanebo. Of course, all bets are off should they find a 30th dynasty obelisk in Ireland 8)

What do you think the archaeologists of the future will make of Thotmes III's obelisk on the Thames embankment - he must have been an ancestor of the Cleopatra who emigrated to England and bought the family heirloom with her... :lol: :lol:
Needle

Well, future archaeologists will of course come to the rightful conclusion that there was an ancient European civilisation which left its legacy all over Europe. Why do you think major cities have sprung up around the remains of this civilization? twisted:

Egypt just copied Europe! :wink:

[Treveri Gaul]

Kelta - Magyar Celtic-Hungaryan

Fair-Vár
mar-már
pacáil-pakol
Fear-férfi
mír-morzsa
puiciúil-pokol
Fiar-ferdít
rinc-ráng,ringat
faichill-figyell
Fuarán-fúrás rionn-róni
faigh-fog
Mair-marad
fiuch-fô
imigh-megy
Mart-marha
borr-forr
cabhall-kabát
Fual-folyás
leian-leány gean-gyám
Fuileadan-(folyó)véredény
furán-fúrás
bisigh-bôsít
Maille- mellé
fiar-ferdít
maze-mezô
Moal-málé
maigh-magyaráz
mez-méz


Pus-pusmog
sann-szán
ban-banya
Bat-bot
seáp-csap
bain-bánya
Gabh-kap
séimhigh-simít
bénaid-bánt
Bobán-góbé seinn-zene
meth-metél
Acaoineadh-könnyes
maith-méltó
nuadhu-nádor
Égen-igény
feadail-fütyöl
dám-támasz
Ceann-kán-fônök
fid-fa eadan-edény
Cuan-kanyar
tapa-tapog
tonn-tenger
Cunús-gonosz
mínigh-mond
nemed-menedék
Sábh-szab
mná-nô
fonn-vonz


Luadar-lódul
caor-kerek,kör cuaolle-kalló
Imigh-megy
car-kerék
koll-kallódik
Iarr-jár
carr-karéj
yar-jérce
Tar-tér call-kell
cath-csata
Corraigh-kerül
gorm-korom
cóitin-kötény
Sith-siet
coir-kár
tóch-tôke
Fuadar-fut
corróg-forog tóg-tákol
Rith-rajt
cur-kör
ceawch-csuk
Tanaigh-tűnik
cealg-csalik
chich-csecse
Achair-akar
chell-csel
dúidin-duda



Magyar - Ujgur:

Kap- kapmak
Bôszít- buzulmak
Csiklik- redzsiklik
Söpör-szüpürmek
Bukás-putlas
Csipked-csimdas
megtisztítani-szürgen
Bűvöl -büje, büjebol
Csók- csokkine
Adni-ödne Csacsog –csacsras
Tömör,Vas-tömör, tömördek
Ugrik-jügür
Kicsi-kicsik
Csö (lovat biztató szó)-csu
ér – erek
Csalán-csakak
Döcög-dübcsek
bátor- bátur
Csap- csap


Gôgös- Gög ucs( mennybe repülni)
kocsi- kos
homok –kum
kisértet - kisi ertilet(egy ember elhalastotja)
jegyezni- jezik
környék - körnidzsek
kever –kaur
nyal- jala
kökény-kökend
macska- müsük
tanya –tanha(teljesen egyedüli) göndör-bödür
koros - kéris
késik- kecsikmek
kavar- kavur
kévéz – kévez
patkó- taka
nyűgôs- jögösüs
padló-padval
rák- rák
sikoltás - csíkaras
kellék-kereklik


só-sor
papucs- tapust
sok - dzsök
Tas –Tas(kôszivü-bátor)
suba –dzuva
Tölt-toldur
szám- szán
Türtôzik- tuzit
szeplô- szepkin
Vezér- vezér szeplô- szepkin
Vezér- vezér
szörny – szörün
Zokog- zokuldas-bokuldas
szűz – kiz
Kapu- kapö
tagol- takbol
Ól – hoila
tar – takr
Szó- szöz


Dörög- güldör
szakál- szakal
ôrzô pár- Csardas
Dug- tyk,tykmak
atya-ata
Csatol –csatmak
Máj- dzsiger
anya-ana
Csökken-csökken
Gége- gel
Csalogány- csalgan=éneklô
Öccs- üke Szótár-szözluk
Ökör- ököz
Tudás- tonede-tonus
Majom-majmun
Kegy- kedzsür
Arany - altun
Zöld- zezild(jezild)
Tűz - ates
Tojó(tyúk) – tochu
Szemüveg- közeneg
Tô(növény töve) - tövi
Sárga- szárök



Magyar - Sumér: Hungaryan -Sumerian

Abrázat-Abru azaad
csuka-suga
gúzs-guz
Abrosz- Ubarasu
dalia-deli
göröngy-girin
Aka-akó
darab-dar
derék-dirig
Bab-ubub
bánya-banü
deszka-dusuge
Bába-baba
barack-baru
dézsa-dusu
Babona-babuna
barázda-bar
dolog-dugluag
Babrál-babar
birka-birga gally-gal
Borda-barda
bolond-balandu
ganaj-gan
Csata-sata
bolt-baltu
kád-kad
Csipke-siip
gát-gutu
kakas-gagasu


Kalapács-kalappatu
konkoly-kankal
megye-mada
Kantár-gantur
kór-guur
méh-me
Kapa-kapa
hála-haala
mér-mer
Kapta-kabta hiba-hipü
mészáros-masaru
Karácsony-guurasumu
hörcsög-ursag
mocsár-musir
Kása-kas
huszár-gisar
munka-muunga
Kasza-kaz
irha-irih néma-numu
Katona-kadunu j
egenye-iagina
ösztön-astin
Király-kuruigi
kabát-gubbutu
kosár-kusurra
Kocsonya-kusunu
kacsa-kusu
kuckó-kuku


Kúp-guub
pocok-pusru
párba-barnu
Kuruzsol-kuruslu
pohár-bahar
sás-sasa
Labda-libdu
palást-palasutu
sáv-saba
Lepény-lebenu pálca-palusu
séta-sid
Lencse-lubsu
palota-balatu
suba-suba
Lom-lum
pap-pap
súly-sul
Lúg-lug
pára-bara sulyok-suluag
Párol-barlu
paraszt-baarasutu
szablya-zublu
Patak-badag
parázs-bar
szakács-sakasu
Pecsenye-pes
párduc-baartusu
szarka-sarraku


Magyar – Ógörög Hungaryan- Old Greek!!

Velő - müelo- sz
csizmadia-szüszmatia
ház-hász
cipô-szüpö
esik-eszik
édes-édesz Savanyú - zumono- sz
biztos-pisztosz
kellemes-kallimosz
Apó, após - apphu- sz cölöp-szkolop
mérges-márgosz
pokróc-pikrosz
nézés-neoszisz
Gyönyörű - gonüro -sz
csendes-cendesz
az-osz
Forró - purro- sz
segít-szegít
fényes-phanosz penész-pinosz
Fiú, fijú - hüjo- sz
most-moszt
retesz-rütész
Kapa - szkaposz
szurtos-szürtosz
Kád - kád-osz
füles-filesz
Kampó - szkambo- sz (görbe)
Gyűrű-güro-sz(kerek)


Kör - gür-osz
ôriz-oüriz
ék-éké
Őr - oür-osz
ôr-oür
üres-eürosz
Luk - lak-osz
citera-kithara
fülemüle-filoméla
Szirt - szirt-isz bolond-bolinda
gólya-güalon
Szó, szav - pszof-osz
hosszas-hosszosz
Rokon - progon-osz
korpa- kureba
inas-inasz
izom-iszma
dél-dejlé
szekrény- szekarion kalap-kalüpto
Iker-ikel-osz (hasonló)
gonosz-agoniosz
Kapor - kuper-osz
andalog-anthologe
fonák-fenaksz
Liszt - aleszt-osz (őrölt)
Ã

[drsrob]

These lists are meaningless by themselves. That words are alike means nothing if you cannot prove that they have the same origin. The similarity could be accidental, or the result of later borrowing.
You must show that:

1. the word was the same in oldest known Magyar tekst, or;
   
2. no sound shift has taken place in Magyar that would have influenced pronounciation of this word;
   
3. the words in Magyar and the other language had the same meaning (not now, but originally).

I'm no linguist so I've probably left out things, but until I see a coherent linguistic history of the word used for comparison I remain sceptical (to put it mildly)

[Robert Vermaat]

I agree.
Vallus, how about starting off by giving us the meaning of both compared words, for the whole list?

[Treveri Gaul]

Hello.

Interrested this website:

http://www.stavacademy.co.uk/mimir/greatstag.htm

[Treveri Gaul]

Dear drsrob


Michelangelo Naddeo Italian scholarly The Ugaritic abjad ..the incision alphabet title in his book, that appeared in the days, does not claim less, than that the Hungarians live in four thousand years Europe already, and the runic writing his basis the European write. It the Hungarian literature appeared this year his stories title according to the study of the first volume of work mutually the runic writing 16. century creation.
Europe's aborigines were Hungarian, who already the one before Christ II. you live on their current area roughly in a millennium.

Mr. Naddeo not Hungaryan :lol:

[drsrob]

Dear drsrob


Michelangelo Naddeo Italian scholarly The Ugaritic abjad ..the incision alphabet title in his book, that appeared in the days, does not claim less, than that the Hungarians live in four thousand years Europe already, and the runic writing his basis the European write. [...]

Mr. Naddeo not Hungaryan :lol:

I'm not sure why this post is specifically adressed to me, but I'm not impressed. I checked the guy's website and it's full of statements, but low on proof. Apparently he has been accused of racism (or expects to be) and his defense is mildly amusing:

I myself am not Magyar and I am not even blond, thus, I cannot be racist!