Greek Laser of Death - Archimedes

[RUBICON]

I have just finished watching an episode of Mythbusters who tonight were attempting to re create a heat laser. Apparently, Romans created a device of highly polished mirrors (brass I would imagine) and directing it at the sun, the parabola would create a heat beam (much as a magnifying glass) which was used to burn enemy ships up to 100 feet away. (this measurement seems a bit close for my liking but I may have joined the episode late).

They (Mythbusters) had no proof but any mention of polished mirrors being used was some 400 years later than the era they were re enacting.

Has anyone heard of this famous heat laser. The myth claims it was used to destroyed a 100 ships in one battle!

They mentioned Polybius but taht was enough to suggest it was an exaggeration!

[Nicholas Gaukroger]

I think the reference is about an invention of Archimedes used against the Romans at the siege of Syracuse. IIRC of course

[Decimus Apollonius]

Thats a wild idea! I caught the previews for that episode but didn't get a chance to see it. :x

[Praefectusclassis]

Oh, Discovery will repeat it sometime. Stefano, do a search for mythbusters here on RAT. It's been discussed before and the source was mentioned by Jona.

[Matt Lukes]

Yup, it was Greek, not Roman- and others have tried it too as I recall and got some minor result. I've seen that Mythbusters episode a bunch of times now, so they will repeat it again I'm sure

[Aurelianus]

Yes, it is the story of Archimedes and his actions against the Romans at the siege of Syracuse.


AFAIK there are some calculations and tests which show that it is not possible to inflame with ancient mirrors a ship on an acceptable distance.

[Josef]

didnt Archimedes also make that big hand that could grab ships and smash them too the walls? or is that a myth too?

[Memmia]

didnt Archimedes also make that big hand that could grab ships and smash them too the walls? or is that a myth too?

Salve,

That was known as the 'claw'.
I'm sure there was a program where they challenged a couple of historians to build a working model of this, but I don't think they managed it.
I think that myth has yet to be 'busted'. :wink:

Was Archimedes stabbed by a Roman soldier who grew impatient with him refusing to leave a buiding before he finished his maths calculations ?

I bet that soldier got his butt kicked by the centurion afterwards!

[Memmia]

P.S. Here's a link to Plutarch's description of the claw

Plutarch. Claw

[RUBICON]

Yes, the tests did show it would not work. they had to have the ship standing still so the heat beam could be effective!

"excuse me skipper, could you just stand still for a second! thankyou!"

I must admit though, nice idea!

[Jona Lendering]

It's been discussed before and the source was mentioned by Jona.

Yep, we discussed it here. The source of the story about the "heat ray" is Anthemius of Tralles, a sixth-century architect, who is best known for building the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. He published his wild story in his Paradoxography. To the best of my knowledge, no Archimedes-scholar (Dijksterhuis in the first place, and now the delightful book by Napolitani) takes the story seriously, because it is not mentioned in reliable sources like Livy, Plutarch, and Polybius.

[Robert Vermaat]

I'm not sure if this is OT but for now I'll put in the Greek section as it's an invention by Archimedes.

[geala]

...
They mentioned Polybius but taht was enough to suggest it was an exaggeration!

Just a sidenote: did I miss something? I thought Polybios (who says nothing about the "laser" but most of his books dealing with the time after 216 are lost, or not?) was one of the most reliable authors of the time?

[D B Campbell]

Philip Rance gave a most entertaining lecture on the subject at the Second International Conference on Hellenistic Warfare, held in Valencia (Spain) in October 2005. Here's his summary:

The Roman conquest of Syracuse in 213-11 BC is recorded as one of the greatest set-piece sieges of the Hellenistic age, not least because of the contribution of the mathematician and engineer Archimedes to the defence of his native city. Among the many machines and devices with which he is credited, a tradition maintains that Archimedes burned the Roman fleet by directing the sun's rays using a mirror or mirrors. This tale has prompted many speculative reconstructions, and did so even in Antiquity, for the most part undertaken by scientists and historians of science seeking to determine by what means Archimedes might have devised a solar ray-gun.
This paper will take a literary approach to the problem, examining the evidence for Archimedes' burning-mirrors from the earliest account of the siege (Polybius) and its direct or indirect derivatives (Livy, Silius Italicus, Plutarch) and tracing the stages of its development through the misconceptions, misreadings and elaborations of Roman and Byzantine authors (Galen, ps.-Lucian, Apuleius, Cassius Dio, Zonaras, Tzetzes). This historical tradition at times drew upon a parallel tradition of Hellenistic and Byzantine mathematical and optical texts (especially Anthemius of Tralles), including a sub-genre of geometrical treatises "On Burning-Mirrors" (Peri Pyreion). The paper concludes with a brief consideration of the overall portrayal of Archimedes in the "Archimedean tradition", and conjectures that the ultimate origin of the legend may lie in Archimedes' attested interest in optics and authorship of a lost Catoptrica.

Unfortunately, the conference proceedings are not yet published.

[hoplite14gr]

Burning mirrors are debatable but e working model of the "claw" was reconstructed in the university Sicily from a group composed of historians and engineers.
Kind regards