Makedonian leather body armour

[Paullus Scipio]

I just came across this.....the equipment in the Hoplites tombs apparently includes gold applique panels, but the orgainic material behind it is LEATHER, hock: hock: not linen.......

Can anyone, particularly in Greece find out more ?.....the evidence is perhaps beginning to mount in this saga....... D

www.ekathimerini.com/.../content.asp?aid=53313

"These are not the first discoveries of gold-embroidered uniforms at Archontiko. Archaeologists Pavlos and Anastassia Chrystostomou from the 17th Ephorate of Prehistoric and Classical Antiquities found the first warriors in full armor four years ago while excavating the cemetery.
The contents of the latest 141 tombs to be discovered were presented recently at the ephorate’s archaeological conference.
The typical Archontiko tomb contained gold masks, gold breastplates, clothes and shoes adorned with gold strips, helmets, shields, swords, spears and knives embellished with gold strips or rosettes.
Though only 2 percent of the 20-hectare cemetery has been excavated, the harvest has already been rich.
The dozens of finds help form an image of the socioeconomic organization, burial rituals, high living standard, aristocratic origins and leading role of the families in one of the most significant urban centers of ancient Macedonia from prehistoric times until the end of the fifth century BC.
As the Chrysostomou couple explained, the ancient settlement built in the middle of the plain of Bottiaia, close to the ancient route connecting East and West — later name the Egnatia Road — was one of the most important urban centers before the foundation of the capital of Pella.
This is confirmed by the 541 tombs dating from the Iron Age, through the Classical period and up to the early Hellenistic era (seventh century BC - 280 BC). This year’s investigation of a family cluster (in the broad sense of a clan) produced rich finds, as important as those of previous years.
A trove of grave ornaments was found in the 25 male and 17 female tombs dating to the Archaic era (first half of the sixth century BC to the beginning of the fifth century BC).
The men were mostly in full armor, with helmets adorned with incised gold strips, steel swords with gold on the handles, spears and knives. Gold foil sheets with embossed ornamentation adorn the leather breastplates, clothing, footwear and hand coverings of the warriors. Apart from gold and silver jewelry, numerous other objects, such as bronze and clay vases, clay idols, metal likenesses of farm carts, furniture and spits accompanied the male burials.
These objects present the first impression of a warrior, while the other grave offerings reveal the deceased’s personal and social prestige, two centuries before the rule of Phillip II and Alexander III."

We really do need to know more.......

[Paullus Scipio]

...and another report from the same newspaper.....
"The men,( 14 graves) buried with their head toward the west or the north, are in full armor. Most have Argolic-type bronze shields,
the inner sides of which are decorated with gold sheets, and rosettes and bronze sheets with pictures of myths, animals
or plants engraved on them. Their bronze helmets are decorated with gold foil and rosettes, and their leather
breastplates are adorned with gold sheeting. Their weapons include iron swords with gilt handles, iron spearheads and
knives.
Gold masks, mouthpieces, bracelets, rings and clasps covered faces and arms. Their clothes were trimmed with gold
and their shoes decorated with foil and rosettes. Beside them were bronze coins (to be placed under the tongue for
Charon) and a large number of vases made of gold, clay, glazed earthenware, and glass, clay idols in male or female
animal or bird form, and metal likenesses of farm carts, furniture and spits with their holders. Of note is a rare gold-plated
silver flask from the Achaemenid dynasty in Persia and a clay black-figured Attic kylix showing a scene of a battle
between hoplites and cavalry.

[Paullus Scipio]

And yet another article from the same newspaper....

"Weaponry and gold indicate the wealth, power and social position of ancient Macedonian warriors before the dominance of Philip II and Alexander III. The high standard of living, social prestige, heroism, and the leading role of military officers in the ancient Macedonian aristocracy is apparent from the lavish tombs of dozens of warriors from 575-450 BC, which are still being uncovered by excavations in the urban center of Archontiko, Pella.

Helmets, shields, swords, spears and dozens of individual funeral gifts, such as masks, breastplates, foil used for decorating clothes and footwear, jewelry, and even farm carts, which accompanied the dead to their simple, trench graves, indicate the social class and funeral ceremonies, as well as the beliefs and occupations of the soldiers in the other world.

Pavlos Chrysostomos, head of the excavation team, analyzed the social and economic level of the fighters in Archontiko Pella, as well as the habit of bearing arms, which was the custom in Epirus, Thessaly and Macedonia.

The three-year excavation of the western graveyard in the ancient settlement, which was the leading center of North Boeotia in prehistoric and historic times until the end of the fifth century BC, when Pella was chosen as the capital of the Macedonian kingdom, has brought to light 331 graves. The 177 with the most lavish funeral gifts date from the second quarter of the sixth century to the first quarter of the fifth century BC. Of these graves, 77 belong to men (44 percent) and 62 of them contained weapons; 84 belonged to women (47 percent), while there are doubts about the remaining 15 (9 percent). Judging by the number of weapons in each man’s grave, Chrysostomos determined the social pyramid of Archontiko Pella during the period it was the warriors’ urban center.

Men’s graves

At the top of the social scale belong two men’s graves with lavish military accouterments — a shield, helmet, lances and knives. Then come 11 graves (17 percent) which contain a helmet, sword, lances and knives; 28 graves with a sword, lances and small knives, while at the base of the pyramid are 21 graves (35 percent) with a lance and knives, which probably “met the need for defense in everyday life or were used for common hunting.â€

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Can you find the year the articles were ublished,Paul?The thing is every time they found fittings they supposed they were part of a leather cuirass without any evidence,just because they could not imagine anything else. I've already said that in Vergina the fittings found in Philip's tomb were "linothorax" fittings according to the tablet underneath the finds. I don't thing they had any linen pieces stuck behind the gold,just the general belief changed towards linen instead of leather. You can see the finds I'm refering to here
http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=755 ... hotostream
Khaire
Giannis

[Kallimachos]

I really hope we'll learn more of this findings. Pictures would be great too

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Wow, this is like a dream come true(checks to see it's not April 1st)

Where is this place Paullus? In Northern Boeotia?

[Paullus Scipio]

Giannis said:_

Can you find the year the articles were published,Paul?

If you go to the newspaper reports - they are from recent years-1997-2005

The thing is every time they found fittings they supposed they were part of a leather cuirass without any evidence,just because they could not imagine anything else.

....yes, Giannis , I know what you mean...but in this case the earliest report said "leather or linen", but subsequent reports were evidently corrected to"leather", and as you can see from the reports, it seems some organic material has survived....

Byron said:-

Where is this place Paullus? In Northern Boeotia?

Confusing, I know, but this 'Boeotia' is in Macedonia. The site is near Pella.
As you say, Byron, a dream come true if there really are organic remains of Hoplites gear 'in situ' - and not just one, but dozens among hundreds of graves..... D

[MeinPanzer]

Can you find the year the articles were ublished,Paul?The thing is every time they found fittings they supposed they were part of a leather cuirass without any evidence,just because they could not imagine anything else. I've already said that in Vergina the fittings found in Philip's tomb were "linothorax" fittings according to the tablet underneath the finds. I don't thing they had any linen pieces stuck behind the gold,just the general belief changed towards linen instead of leather. You can see the finds I'm refering to here
http://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=755 ... hotostream
Khaire
Giannis

I think this is right. You get the same thing with written descriptions of Thracian tomb finds; every metal fitting found around the torso of a warrior is presumed to be attached to a leather cuirass. It can make reading descriptions of such grave finds that aren't detailed excavation reports frustrating.

[Paullus Scipio]

Ruben said:-

It can make reading descriptions of such grave finds that aren't detailed excavation reports frustrating.

...indeed, I couldn't agree more! :? Newspaper reports are not an ideal source....it is quite possible this is assumption.. BUT... the fact that 'leather or linen' in the earlier report was subsequently corrected to 'leather', the fact, as Giannis pointed out, that the general museum assumption seems to be linen, and lastly, the fact that so many graves survive and have been excavated gives one hope that some organic remains have actually been found.

...as I said, " we need to know more!" :wink: :wink:

[Dan Howard]

Sounds like Chinese Whispers to me. Every time a report gets repeated the details change to things that are less like the original.

[M. Demetrius]

Looking at the greaves, surely these two were not for the same person? The one leg is clearly quite a bit longer than the other.

[Comerus Gallus]

Yes there is not hinges displaced around the vergina fittings that Giannis posted...indicating perhaps, that the cuirass was not metal like the other was.

[Dan Howard]

Looking at the greaves, surely these two were not for the same person? The one leg is clearly quite a bit longer than the other.

The person would also need two left legs.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Looking at the greaves, surely these two were not for the same person? The one leg is clearly quite a bit longer than the other.

The person would also need two left legs.

I don't see why.There is a right and a left greave in the photo I posted.The strange thing is the other greaves in the tomb had normal,equal size.
There are other greaves too that have uexpliably different size,like these I saw in Thessaloniki museum.The difference would more visible in a frontal picture
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... C02215.jpg
Khairete
Giannis

[MeinPanzer]

The difference would more visible in a frontal picture

Like this?



I think it's probably a matter of tailoring to individuals who may have deformities in their legs or who have suffered damage to the legs. Breaking the tibia or fibula when growing up, for instance, could cause one leg to be significantly shorter due to stunted growth if not treated properly.