Meaning what this word: Celtic. Gaul, Galata, Gaulisc

[Antonius Lucretius]

I am more and more inclined to think that the "Kelts" called themselves like that, with variations due to regional accents.(Kael, Gal, Gaul, Gael etc.)
The Romans called them "Galli" because it was the closest latin word they could find. There was probably a pun intended.
Indeed Caesar did not write that the Kelts were given that name by the Greeks. He specifically states that they called themselves by that name.
A case in point: the Galatians. It is pronounced "galaytians" in english but I suspect it was pronounced "Gael'tians" (Galtoi) and that looks much closer to "Keltoi".
I noticed that because my first name is Pascal (hard "P", hard "C") whereas in the Middle East --including Turkey, former Galatia/Gaeltia), it is pronounced "Basgal".
So, "Keltoi" is the same as "Galtoi". Just a difference in accent.
My two and a half cents worth...

Pascal Sabas.

[Treveri Gaul]

That will bear examination, true. In Hungaryan language was found 1750 Turkey wordasword. Too many? Maybe but, original Hungaryan language mixed the Hunnish and another Turkey language. Hungary. = ongry./ Onogur= 10 tribe/. Maybe the Galata tribe incomming from Asia, the revelations they had brought! They had brought: the Keltoi name.

This is a idea.


Salve

[Ron Andrea]

Perhaps, but I was under the impression that the Galatians were Celts going to Asia from Europe--not the other way around.

[Antonius Lucretius]

A (very) short history of the Galatians.
The Galatians were from three tribes: the Tectosages, the Trocmi and the Tolistobogii.
No one really knows precisely where they came from but there are indications that the Tectosages --it could mean "the land seekers"-- were part of the Volsques nation, that dwelled in South West France, around Toulouse.
The other branch of the Volsques was the Volsques Arecomici.
The Tolistobogii may also have come from France, but South East France, since it seems they had some sort of relations with the Greeks of Massilia (today Marseille).
The Trocmi are quite mysterious but they may have joined in when the Tectosages the Tolistbogii and probably others passed through the Danube area.
In the IIIrd century BC a huge Gallic warband, including these three tribes moved east under the direction of one "Brennus" (Brenn).
This may have been a title like "general" , rather than the man's name. This Brennus is known as the second Brennus, to differentiate him from the first Brennus, the "Vae Victis" one.
They went about their merry little way plundering a good part of Greece.
They were eventually chased away from Greece, apparently with the help on an earthquake. The Brenn died of wounds, the tribes split and some settled in Thrace, some others went off to plunder Macedonia.
Eventually the Tectosages, Tolistobocii and Trocmi were hired as mercenaries by king Nicomedes 1st of Bythinia who had some family troubles with his brother.
They settled in Central Anatolia and from then on they made a living as mercenaries, brigands and wholesale pillagers until king Attalus of Pergamon put a stop to it and forced them to remain into their settled area.
They still remained however the best mercenaries an usurper --or legitimate ruler-- could find. Much like the Swiss in the Renaissance.
In Galatia they kept their Gallic customs and system of governement and St Jerôme noted as late as the IVth century CE that the Galatians spoke the same language as the Treveri of Trier, in Germany.

[Idomeneas]

Perhaps, but I was under the impression that the Galatians were Celts going to Asia from Europe--not the other way around.

they had allez-retour ticket :lol:
Most european languages have a big amount of Greek words especially in medical and astronomy area. Should we call them all Greeks?

[authun]

.... there are indications that the Tectosages --it could mean "the land seekers"-- were part of the Volsques nation, that dwelled in South West France, around Toulouse. The other branch of the Volsques was the Volsques Arecomici.

Hi Pascal,

I have seen this theory as well as an alternative, namely that the Volcae, as we tend to call them, lived in modern day Germany somewhere between the Rhine and the modern day Bohemia. When they migrated, they formed two groups, one going eastwards and the other in the direction of southern France. These are picked up in sources as Volcae Tectosages and Volcae Arecomici.

This alternative theory would support St Jerôme's claim that the Tectosages spoke the same language as the Treveri.

You probably already know the theory that germanic speakers referred to neighbouring celtic speakers as 'wahl' because the Volcae were the first such people they came into contact with.

best

Harry Amphlett

[hoplite14gr]

Well Tectosages in Greek means those who make saddle-gear.
Tecton = Maker Sagi = animal harness and saddle.
Just my 2 pennies worth.

Kind regards

[Susanna]

I think you have to be careful with putting all the words nowadays in the same time-line...as far as I remember correctly the word "keltoi" appears in Greece in written sources around 5th cent. BC.
The word "Gaul" in Latin written sources appears first somewhere 2th-1th cent. BC...

so there would be a minimum of 300 years inbetween, so maybe because the situation in Europe changed through that time, people already ment something else...
f.e. "keltoi" was also used for people from "Germania" in Greece 5th cent. BC as far as I learnt in a seminar.
:roll:

[authun]

"keltoi" was also used for people from "Germania" in Greece 5th cent. BC as far as I learnt in a seminar.

Yes, there is even speculation that Hecataeus was referring to Heuneburg on the Donau when he wrote about Pyrene at the head of the Ister.

http://www.dhm.de/museen/heuneburg/en/einf_frame.html

best

Harry Amphlett

[MeinPanzer]

Maybe then we might venture that they called themselves 'Gauls'? Even if they did not know they belonged to one people, the name might have held some meaning, so that celts in modern France as well as modern Turkey called themselves 'Gauls'?

I know, at least, that for the tribes that made up the Galatians, they did not call themselves Galatians- that was a purely Greek title, from the Greek word Galatae. The invading tribes (Tolistobogii, Aigosages, Trocmi, etc.) perhaps called themselves Celts, but mainly seem to have identified themselves as their individual tribes.

[MeinPanzer]

A (very) short history of the Galatians.
The Galatians were from three tribes: the Tectosages, the Trocmi and the Tolistobogii.
No one really knows precisely where they came from but there are indications that the Tectosages --it could mean "the land seekers"-- were part of the Volsques nation, that dwelled in South West France, around Toulouse.
The other branch of the Volsques was the Volsques Arecomici.
The Tolistobogii may also have come from France, but South East France, since it seems they had some sort of relations with the Greeks of Massilia (today Marseille).
The Trocmi are quite mysterious but they may have joined in when the Tectosages the Tolistbogii and probably others passed through the Danube area.
In the IIIrd century BC a huge Gallic warband, including these three tribes moved east under the direction of one "Brennus" (Brenn).
This may have been a title like "general" , rather than the man's name. This Brennus is known as the second Brennus, to differentiate him from the first Brennus, the "Vae Victis" one.
They went about their merry little way plundering a good part of Greece.
They were eventually chased away from Greece, apparently with the help on an earthquake. The Brenn died of wounds, the tribes split and some settled in Thrace, some others went off to plunder Macedonia.
Eventually the Tectosages, Tolistobocii and Trocmi were hired as mercenaries by king Nicomedes 1st of Bythinia who had some family troubles with his brother.
They settled in Central Anatolia and from then on they made a living as mercenaries, brigands and wholesale pillagers until king Attalus of Pergamon put a stop to it and forced them to remain into their settled area.
They still remained however the best mercenaries an usurper --or legitimate ruler-- could find. Much like the Swiss in the Renaissance.
In Galatia they kept their Gallic customs and system of governement and St Jerôme noted as late as the IVth century CE that the Galatians spoke the same language as the Treveri of Trier, in Germany.

If you want to read some good ancient writing on this, check out Pausanias' fairly brief account of the Galatian invasion of Greece:

http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diadochi/diadochi_t11.html

However, I must object to your statement that the Galatians "kept their Gallic customs." There is some evidence (and more seems to appear all the time), that the Gauls in Galatia changed their customs, costume etc. quite a bit from their European kin.

[Treveri Gaul]

Hi All.

More a intrerresting question.

Albert Dazuet french prof. turned in French the pre-latin place names. Names like APA, /father/ ABA/light-weight / HAB/foam/ etc......-all Hungaryan words."

The result is shocked.- ÚR/God/ LÓ/Horse/MÉN/horse man/ this root word
found in French

[Treveri Gaul]

Hi All.

More a intrerresting question.

Albert Dazuet french prof. turned in French the pre-latin place names. Names like APA, /father/ ABA/light-weight / HAB/foam/ etc......-all Hungaryan words."

The result is shocked.- ÚR/God/ LÓ/Horse/MÉN/horse man/ this root word
found in French geographical location name: 2874

MAG/core/MAGAR/HUngary/:450
BÃ

[Treveri Gaul]

Hi All.

"
However, I must object to your statement that the Galatians "kept their Gallic customs." There is some evidence (and more seems to appear all the time), that the Gauls in Galatia changed their customs, costume etc. quite a bit from their European kin."

In Nord-East was lived the Cotinus or Cotii celtic tribe from Volcae-Tectosages tribe. In AD 143. /Tusculum Elegium Róma/ Last independence celtic tribe. I live here, Can't be certain where it's originating. Cotinus tribe come return from Anatolia. They kept the in Celtic culture, identitat, many Cotinus assimilated dhak troops, and going Moldavia/romania/