Real Life Military Experience

[aitor iriarte]

Laus for you Heiko!

Aitor

[hoplite14gr]

Matt, Jim
I have to propose, a 3rd solution. 6 months duty in the border where they experience seeing the "cargo" of human trafficers in true wretched conditions and they will be "cured" from many things.

Someone had said before me that "pasifist" (meant here in its negative form)
simply hides behind those who have the guts to face reality.

And reality is a lot more than watching T.V and taking food off the supermarket selves.


Kind regards

[Robert Vermaat]

Good one Jim.
Heiko, I couldn't agree more.

Matt, by no means all wars were fought to ensure our safety and modern easy livin'. By I'm sure most if not all were sold to us that way. I don't think protesting against war is wrong - but I immediately agree with you that disrespect towards veterans is absolutely not to be tolerated! Just don't make the mistake to lump all anti-war protestors in one groups to kick at.

[Tarbicus]

Someone had said before me that "pasifist" (meant here in its negative form) simply hides behind those who have the guts to face reality.

I think that's a bit of a generalisation Stefanos. Just because an aid worker won't pick up a gun doesn't mean they're a coward, and the list could go on.

[Robert Vermaat]

Stefanos, is a mother a bad person if she does not want her son to die somewhere? Is a father a coward? Is a son to be blamed if he chooses to provide for his children?

Are wars by definition good and should everyone be willing to die in the cause that his governmwent claimes?

Are governments always right?

I'm not so sure about all that.

[Ioannis]

I agree with both Robert and Jim. Anti-war protest is not only legit but necessary as well. Moreover, all people who refuse to bear arms are not cowards. We must not idolise (is that a word?) war per se.

As far as the veterans issue is concerned, I do believe that they deserve our respect. However we should keep in mind that not everybody who serves is by definition a "hero" or "a good, brave guy" etc. They are many bad apples as well.

[Tarbicus]

My grandfather was made sergeant on the battlefield when serving his very long time in the jungles of Burma during WW2. He never spoke about it, mouthed off, gave people a hard time for not wanting to join up. The only time he ever spoke about his experiences (once) he mentioned rats as big as dogs and the screams of his mates coming from the jungle. What he did say was that war was a bad business that I didn't ever want to get involved with, and hence he never spoke about it.

[hoplite14gr]

I respect your argument Jim.
It is just the sad reality of life that humans will try force to impose their opinion and that refusing to accept the fact that making a stand will require again force is unrealistic.

I also respect the courage of an "unarmed aid worker" but unfortunatly -given human stupidity-he will be the fisrt casualty.
And dead aid workers cannot aid and if they the issue of their protection comes up we go back to square one.

I said that only to stress that if we are not prepered to face unplesant things then even "righteous morals/conditions" (what ever this is for each one of us) cannot be preserved.

I would like to live in ideal world without wars but that cannot be again givenhuman stupidity.

Kind regards

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

When I was in highschool I read "All Quiet On The Western Front". After serving a year combat duty as a medic in Vietnam, I read it again and this time I understood it.

Ralph Izard
(who overheard this comment from the commanding general of the First Armored Division to the division chief of staff: "You don't have to respect anyone that is stupid enough to get drafted."-- 1973)

[Virilis]

My grandfather was made sergeant on the battlefield when serving his very long time in the jungles of Burma during WW2. He never spoke about it, mouthed off, gave people a hard time for not wanting to join up. The only time he ever spoke about his experiences (once) he mentioned rats as big as dogs and the screams of his mates coming from the jungle. What he did say was that war was a bad business that I didn't ever want to get involved with, and hence he never spoke about it.

Exactly! My both grandfathers fought in the Finnish-Soviet Union war 1939-1944. They very seldom talked about but I could sense a disgust in them sometimes when politicians talked about the heroics of the war. There were a story circulating among the common veterans after the war about a small town priest at the start at the winter war. The priest was preaching his sermon and shouting "When will we get our first dead heroes to our cemetery, the neighbour village has already four!"

I also know a guy whose father acted very heroically in these wars. After the war there was an embassy of the leaders of the town which wanted to give him some kind of reward. He invited them to his house, then to his toilet and then flushed the medals down on the toilet!

What I am trying to say is that none of us can tell how someone should feel about these things, unfortunately...

[Avatar]

Real life military experience...? A short stint in the Norwegian Defence Force... My biggest regret ever is not doing the entire year... I loved it in the army...

[M. Demetrius]

Although admittedly a generalization, I believe of all the groups of people on the planet, soldiers want war the least, politicians the most.

I salute all veterans, regardless of their national identity, regardless of their personal character or battlefield achievements. Bowed head, hand over heart, gentle gratitude. Thanks, troops.

[hoplite14gr]

A vert true saing David
Kind regards

[M.H. White]

Sometimes I think it would cure alot of ills if warmongering politicians who yapped too loudly found themselves sent out with an army and told to put their money where their mouth was, as happened in the ancient world.

A certain Kleon of Athens comes to mind . . .

[M. Demetrius]

Well, we'd have either more compromises and friendliness amongst the rival factions, or less politicians, and it's arguable which would be the better outcome.